Certified Rehabilitation Counselors can explore a wide variety of job settings thanks to their credential. With many options and areas of focus available to them, CRCs can find themselves stuck while considering where they want their career to take them. The most common question we hear from CRCs is how do I navigate my options in private practice?
Dr. Aaron Mertes is a CRC and professor at the University of Montana Billings. On the next episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, hear about Dr. Mertes' career, and learn about why he recently wrote and self-published a book on career paths, options, and opportunities in private rehabilitation counseling.
You can purchase Dr. Mertes' book here: https://aaronmertes.com/
Certified Rehabilitation Counselors can explore a wide variety of job settings thanks to their credential. With many options and areas of focus available to them, CRCs can find themselves stuck while considering where they want their career to take them. The most common question we hear from CRCs is how do I navigate my options in private practice?
Dr. Aaron Mertes is a CRC and professor at the University of Montana Billings. On the next episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, hear about Dr. Mertes' career, and learn about why he recently wrote and self-published a book on career paths, options, and opportunities in private rehabilitation counseling.
You can purchase Dr. Mertes' book here: https://aaronmertes.com/
Hello and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, presented by the Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification. I'm Pam Schleman, executive director of CRCC, and we're so glad to have you here for another conversation on the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. Certified counselors can explore a wide variety of job settings thanks to their CRC credential. With many options and areas of focus available to them, CRCs can find themselves stuck while considering where they want their career to take them. The most common question we hear from CRCs is, how do I navigate my options in private practice? Dr. Aaron Tez is a CRC and professor at the University of Montana Billings. He recently wrote, and self-published a book on career paths, options and opportunities in private rehabilitation counseling. This conversation is a must listen if you have an interest in private practice. Aaron shares a lot of great insight into approaching this area of the profession as well as his views on where rehabilitation counseling is heading in the future. We hope you enjoyed this conversation with Dr. Aaron Marez . Good afternoon and hello Aaron . I'm so glad to have you as our guest on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. We've known each other for a few years now, and we've had some multi-layered conversations over the years about the profession of rehabilitation counseling, and I've always felt you've had your hand on the pulse of what folks in our profession, whether it be a student , an emerging professional, or folks that have been in the field , um, you've always had your pulse on what they're really looking for in terms of their career and their profession and just in general, their profession as as a whole and what rehab counseling offers. There's so many, many, many opportunities that this profession offers to folks that are in, in , in this field.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Happy to be here and I appreciate having as, as much as I can, being accurate about having my finger on the pulse <laugh> and getting it right.
Pam Shlemon:That is one of the reasons why I invited you to join the CRC Strategic Task Force back in 2022. And since then, you have, you've written a book and self-published careers in private rehabilitation counseling, a walkthrough guide to choosing or transferring careers. We're gonna dive a little bit deeper into that later on in the podcast. One of the things that I would like to start with is, and we ask , um, those that are CRCs that have been in the profession, why did you decide to pursue a career in rehabilitation counseling and what drew you to the work?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:It was a , it was a pretty a pivotal moment for me when I was in grad school. I had a faculty who was really , uh, advocated for us to be part of the professional membership and be part of the profession. And I think it was maybe my first professional conference when , uh, I was in California. And so we were all excited to get out west. We live in the Midwest, you know, and , uh, somebody went up , uh, our keynote speaker and there was maybe two, 300 people, something like that. Maybe 400, I don't remember exactly, but it was a big room and it felt like a big space. And they said how many people chose this profession as a child? And of course, you know, we all wanted to be firemen and astronauts and ballerinas or whatever. And then she asked how many people fell into this profession by accident. And of course, the whole room raised their hands and then looked around sheepishly at each other, kind of wondering like, how does that happen? <laugh>? And my story's really no different. I was , uh, an undergraduate and somebody said, Hey, there's a job at a group home and the , the work is great. And I was nervous about it 'cause I didn't know what that meant. Uh, I'll kind of fast forward through, but I love that work. And then went on to be a job coach and , um, oh , work in a special education department and a work readiness coach. Had a community college. And I started to get this perspective about disability from the education to independent living and , and residential life and that kind of thing. And so I didn't have parents that were really , um, they were supportive, but didn't really know how to pursue higher education. I wasn't like a first gen , but you know, something like that first generation college student, that's what that means. I shouldn't use the lingo. So I went to grad school, someone said, Hey, you can do that for a career. And I said, what's a career? And they, you know, one thing led to another and that led to doctoral school. And now , uh, you know, done a few other things in between, but here I am. So it was kind of by accident. I tend to make big plans and they shift direction or they get messed up somewhere and I just go where the wind blows. And now here I am and just trying to be useful, impactful , uh, wherever I can be. And you mentioned keeping my finger on the pulse is just trying to be, you know, make wise decisions for myself and help the people around me. And that's kind of the gist of it. So to answer what drew me to the work, it, it kind of feels a little cliche saying this, but it's the people, you know, the first group home job that I had, I was like, these guys are, they laugh a lot more than some of the other really serious people in my life. And I like that. That feels good for right now. And then I met some really competent, intelligent people and I was like, wow , I kind of wanna be like that too. And you build role models along the way and you see people that you wanna be like and , uh, work with and work for. And I'm just kind of letting that ride out and I keep meeting wonderful people. And the more I do, the more I wanna be like them and be in this space. So
Pam Shlemon:I find that your story will resonate with so many people. We've talked to so many people along the way and their stories, well , everybody's story is unique how they got into this profession, as you said, as not like a little child, I wanna be a nurse, I wanna be a firefighter, I wanna be attorney. They fell into this profession accidentally, or they were drawn to it for, and they've stayed in it because they've been drawn into it because of the people one that they're serving, and two from the professionals around them as well. So I find that that's, to me, what makes this profession so different. I also think the people in the profession are one of the most passionate group of individuals I've ever met. No matter how challenging the situation is, their passion is never left them for what they do for the, for the folks that they're working for. Yeah .
Dr. Aaron Mertes:So , you know, one thing we learn when we're in , I'll put myself, my student hat on and we're talking about careers and some people do a job and it's a necessary economic reality. And some people build an identity and build a life and really adhere to the values. I mean, it's true of a lot of the helping professions, especially nurses. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> counselors, doctors, you know, it , people feel drawn to this. Pulls out something that's the best part of me. And this is one of those places where people feel very passionate. And we may get into this, we may not, but sometimes that works to our disadvantage too, that we love it so much that we, we, we have a hard time, you know, dealing with changes and that kind of thing. But nevertheless, it absolutely passionate group . And I kind of feel like that same thing. You know, when, when , uh, changes happen in my life, a lot of it is directed by how I see myself professionally because of that.
Pam Shlemon:You became a CRC after earning your master's degree in rehabilitation counseling from St . Cloud in 2015, in the almost 10 years that you've held the credential. How did the CRC shape your career trajectory? What value did you see the CRC as a young professional entering the field, and why do you continue to renew it?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:It's a couple answers, really. So when I look at credentials and particularly certifications, we'll talk about those right now. There's a really practical element to it. One of 'em is that if I get a certification, it can boost or enhance my employability so I can get a job and hopefully either increase my skillset or increase the money that I can make with it or something like that. So, I mean, there's that, that part of an answer to of like, why do I continue renewing it? What draw drew me to it When I was in school, I had no idea what a credential was for and how it worked and why you get them. I just knew that like, it looked really cool to have num letters behind your name, you know? Uh, now having had a several of them and having that alphabet soup , uh, and getting rid of some certifications for practical reasons too, it defines who I am. We talked about that identity piece earlier and it's not, it became like, oh, that would be cool. And then once I got it, it was like, but I wanna keep this because this tells myself and other people who I am and what kind of work I do. One of the things I like to share with students , uh, either in writing or in person , is that when you get a certification, and not only increase your employability, but it increases your marketability in terms of how you represent yourself to other people, that's really important as a, as a counselor, because you may, you may have a degree and people kind of expect that you have this master's degree or bachelor's degree, whatever that might be. But what kind of degree is it that matters? And then certification and potentially licensing sometimes is also just an extension of it, sort of chisels away at what's my niche? What's my , uh, what kind of work do I do? So I've gotten it, kept it and re and will continue to renew it because it checks all of those boxes for me and it won't check all the boxes for everyone. Some people keep it for, because they have just come to really value and appreciate it and means something personal to them, other people, it's just strictly a financial decision. If this can get me a raise at my job, I'll get it because my career has led down this path towards academia and might continue to do that in the future. May not, who knows? But it's continued to be a practical thing for universities require it. And um, it's important for students to have it if they wanna mentor from somebody who's been through the process. And , uh, but I think I've already explained how personal it is to me as well. And I promise not to tear up a little bit 'cause I've been known to do that, but I won't do it today, I promise. Well, I can't promise, but it is, it is , uh, sentimental value as well as financial value. Maybe that's another way to put it.
Pam Shlemon:Many CRCs, including yourself, explore a wide variety of career pathways in the field. Currently, as a professor of rehabilitation and mental health counseling in Montana State University in Billings, what do you find is driving interest in students pursuing rehabilitation counseling in the CRC ?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:A couple things. Um, we talked a little bit about how people get into the profession and I think if somebody has had that kind , had had , uh, either disability experience or has had such a career that has led them up to this or has been through , uh, voc rehab process before, when people get to know that, they say, oh, but I, I wanna professionally develop and I wanna grow my skills. And it's provides another pathway to do that. In addition to just wanting to be professionally developed and to grow more in their careers. Right now is a really hot time for people wanting to become mental health counselors. And especially coming outta covid people made up some career shifts and reeva, you know , I'm a I'm at the very early stages of being a millennial and I identify as one <laugh>. So work is really a meaningful thing for me. And it is for a lot of people too. And if they're working at a job that either they had to leave, now is an opportunity to change. And I see a lot of people coming into the counseling profession as a whole saying, this gives me a space to , uh, do something important, whatever that important thing is for them. A lot of people wanna get licensed and become a therapist, and they think that's the, the very romantic vision of what's gonna give them a better life once they get into classes or maybe even before that. Maybe it's an orientation. One of the things I like to talk to 'em about is that , uh, you'll absolutely have opportunities to make career choices here. And if you wanna pursue license or certification, whatever that might be, please do it. 'cause that's what we're here to help you do. But I wanna tell you about your options, what directions you can go and how that fits with your core values and the things that you find important. So they get all thoughtful about that and they're like, oh, okay, yeah, I can do that. That sounds great. And then they get into a class and I say, okay, one of the things that we're gonna do is we're gonna work on not how you're going to save the world and help other people, but how you're gonna help yourself. Which means we're gonna start by thinking about your career and how intentional you're being about it. Once we do that, the students will kind of look at me quizzically and say like, like, what does that even mean? So I, we have these conversations about, well, how many people have been affected by a disability? And they're like , uh, not me, whatever. And then , uh, we talk about what disability is and how it affects people. And everybody comes, seems to come to realize, oh, we all have been touched by this somehow, and boy doesn't this matter. 'cause once you start learning about benefit systems and the importance of work and how much time we spend at work and what that does for our mental health and our physical health and all of those important elements that we know as rehab counselors, people start to say, oh, that's, that's kind of important. I think that matters. But of course we don't know that unless we've been exposed to it beforehand. So people come in, in short, they come in with these grand visions and these romantic visions, which is a normal part of the career development process. And then they learn a little bit of information and they kind of chisel down at what, what their path is going to be. Here's the challenge with that though . When people say, that sounds like important work for somebody to do, but I'm not sure if that's work for me. Do you guys hear that kind of thing?
Pam Shlemon:Yes.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:So that's where, I mean, we just get into really practical decisions about, well then what's available in your hometown? What's available? Uh, do you wanna move? Do you have plans for the future? How do we fit this into your life? And what is gonna be the certification, license, career, job, whatever the thing is, what's gonna make sense for you? This is what rehab counselors do with their clients. This is what I get to do with the students and we make really practical decisions about that. So , um, the question you asked is, what's driving interest is? Yeah . It's what opportunities exist for people and how that fits in with who they envision themselves to be. So, I mean, that's kind of the practical answer and that's, I learned about that in textbooks when I was in school and now I'm seeing it with students play out. So it's a little bit of a question of what is within them and what's out in the community is available opportunity.
Pam Shlemon:And I wonder how many folks teaching these courses have that same thought because that is so important. You have to understand what those students are looking for, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And I think one of the things that we always hear from students that are entering, and I present to a lot of , uh, different programs, talking to new students as an intro to the credential and what it is and why is it important. And we sometimes hear, oh, I , I , I want , I think I'm going down the track of mental health 'cause I want my license. And I've always said, that's fine. Mental health is a disability. And what you get from going through a rehabilitation, clinical rehabilitation counseling program or a rehabilitation counseling program is you will get the unique coursework on a disability and rehabilitation. And so if you do that mental health check , that's fine, but you're not gonna get that piece . You're not gonna have that knowledge base, that expertise, whoop , when it comes time to working with people with disabilities. So you can go down that track. Licensure will always be there as well. So I think that sometimes puts some perspective 'cause they don't see mental health as a disability.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:This is maybe neither here nor there, but I I've read a book recently about adverse childhood experiences and it's a kind of this emerging topic that a lot of people know what that word means and kind of have a sense of it. But adverse childhood experiences are when we have experiences as kids, they lead to both mental and physical issues. You know, medical issues that are both mental and physical. That's one of the things that I think helps students make the connection between this is not just an emotional thing that we do in a room to make connection, which that's what counseling is, but we take into consideration the medical, physical, social reality that people live within. And part of that is their economic situation and their community situation and all those pieces we do. Sometimes we do a really good job and sometimes it's lip service to being really , um, have a wide angle lens at how much we're seeing in clients , um, and ourselves and each other when we're able to step back and say, oh, but I'm gonna be a therapist. And I'm used that kind of sarcastically. 'cause <laugh> , it's, it's fun. And I, I , I love therapists. I am one sometimes, and it's, it's great and it's wonderful, but so many of our clients are going to have physical conditions, medical conditions. And one of the things that I hear from students and even therapists out in the community is when that comes up, I'm able to focus on the emotional stuff, but I'm not really sure what to do about all of their medical reality and the economic reality and their careers and all that stuff. I do relationship and I'm, and I say, good, then here's another opportunity to , uh, take what we know about a , a wide angle lens, ecological view, if you wanna use an academic word for it. If , if we take that all that stuff into consideration, how can we treat that uniquely as people having functional limitations? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And that's what a disability does for us, whether it's mental or physical. So the rehab philosophy, people understand, right ? Something about after they get the philosophy is where , uh, where some of the challenges lie.
Pam Shlemon:So as I mentioned, you self-published , uh, the book, and it's , again, I'm gonna repeat the title. It's called Careers in Private Rehabilitation Counseling, A Walkthrough Guide to Choosing or Transforming Careers. What was your impetus first writing that book?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Yeah, so when I was in grad school, we, we learned about state rehab and I knew about that. And state rehab plays an extremely important role in the, in the rehabilitation world because the whole profession started because of legislation that said, Hey, we need a social program that meets people's needs that aren't being met in the private industry. Like, that's where we came from. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And I said, great. Okay, I know about that. Wonderful. So what else is, what else can I do with this? With my degree, with the certification, whatever. And in textbooks and in conversation people would say, well, there's all kinds of like, private stuff you can do kind of and go talk to Joe down at so and so and he'll tell you about it. And then I'd go talk to Joe and he'd say, oh yeah, you can do this. And I, I was started to piece together. There was lots of other opportunities, but I couldn't figure out exactly where to find information about that except talking to people. So when I got to , uh, into my doctoral work, I found , uh, an organization that did, it was four private rehab counselors and I just started talking to people and asking around, what do you do with the rehabilitation counseling degree? If you have a certification, what's its value to you? Where does it take you? What can you get with it? And I just was curious about that. Like what are all of the possibilities and not just the usual things, but the person who's 15 years into their career and had this for a long time, the degree of certification, whatever, and they've ended up in politics and you're thinking, how do the heck does that even come out of counseling and, you know, this disability related stuff. Well, as it turns out, a lot of important political decision are made about the services people get and it takes an expert to inform , uh, decision makers about how that's going to impact people. And so as I started to explore all this stuff, I said, okay, I'm gonna, and then I got into teaching, I said, I'm gonna just write it down because I was explaining this to students over and over again and I said, you guys don't wanna listen to me all the time. Just, here's a book. It's all in writing <laugh> , just put it out there so it can, you know, be available more so you don't need me to talk about it. <laugh> I think they were getting sick of me personally, but I'll let them respond to that <laugh> . Uh, so that's kind of why I wrote it. It was, it , it's literally just a resource for people to say, what are my options and what can I do with this? The other part too is that , um, academics love textbooks, you know, and they , they're full of packed full of information. They're important, they're helpful and they have a really valuable place. But one of the things I was looking for is I wanted some mentorship and I wanted somebody to kind of hold my hand and walk me through what are my options. We know that we like counselors and people come to counselors 'cause there's that like, relationship piece. So I tried to write it in a way that was , uh, acknowledging that I have limited experience and this is just coming from what I've collected, but I'll help you walk through this process. And that was kind of important to me 'cause I wanted it to have a little bit of a personal feel too, so that people felt it was accessible and, and , um, possible. In
Pam Shlemon:Our position here with CRCC, we talked to so many different individuals. And so we know that there's , uh, many, many , uh, opportunities for CRCs to go work various different practice settings. State VR is one of the largest, but they have this challenges and people are leaving Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> State vr . And they're looking to find what other options are. And one of the first things that they come up with or wanna know about is private practice. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um , they're very interested in that line of work and there's not enough about it, so how do they learn about it? So your book does certainly help in that regard. So let's say someone picks up your book and, and decides if private practice is right for them. You walk through how CRCs can prepare themselves for the position they eventually want to have. What work settings or areas of private practice do you believe will see the most growth in opportunities for CRCs now and in the distant future? Do
Dr. Aaron Mertes:I have to pull out my crystal balls to answer this one? Well ,
Pam Shlemon:<laugh> <laugh>
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Maybe , uh, I'll give it a shot. Um , okay. O other people have written about this too, and so I'm kind of borrow from some of them. Uh, and then add a little bit of my own. One of the, the first ones that comes to mind is elder care . Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . We know that I , if we equate disability with some kind of functional limitation, I'm kind of borrowing that language again from the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that's the case, then we all will be disabled at some point in our life. And with our aging , uh, mothers and fathers and grandparents, whatever. I, I won't get into talking about , uh, elder care facilities and what those mean to people. But people have impressions of what those mean to them and whether that's, you know, they're places they can thrive in. Counselors in some ways help people thrive. And this is, I think, an opportunity for both, any kind of counselor really to be in that space, to help people as they're aging, to feel a sense of belonging and, and , uh, growth and importance. And that's part of what counseling is. It's not everything, but it's part of it. So elder care, that's one area. Another big one is in technology use. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , uh, and accessibility for technology, because every one of us struggles with technology at some point in our life, right? Like, we just went through covid and everybody was like, what is this Zoom thing, <laugh> , and do I have to do it? Uh, and we struggle with it, and some parts of it are not accessible to us. And depending on our ability levels, they , they remain inaccessible. And it's not just Zoom, it's not , no offense against Zoom or anything, but it's websites, it's phones, it's all the gadgets and trinkets . It's all that stuff. And there's a lot of space and room, I think, and continue, will continue to be in making sure that those things are available to everybody, not just the target market or whatever that might be. So technology's another one given the growth of mental health , uh, concerns. That's another area. Yes. A people could, a a person could go to school and be a therapist, but understanding all the unique impacts of disability and how that affects people's mental health, the psychosocial adjustment process to this new limitation that I might have based on a chronic illness or whatever it might be. Uh, I see a lot of space for , uh, the expertise, disability knowledge being impactful in the mental health world.
Pam Shlemon:I will add to that because we see a lot of folks , uh, that have their certification and their mental health counselors coming back and getting their CRC because of exactly what you said. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> they're working with people with disabilities and they don't have that expertise. They don't have that knowledge and how to work with them. Functional limitations and all that other stuff that you're psychosocial, all that that you're just referred to, they don't have that piece. So we do see several folks, that's why when you, we talk about mental health, it is a disability. CRCs are equipped to work with those folks as well.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:One of the, one of the things that was very curious to me when I first started teaching was that there seemed to be this two, the two ways of talking about being a rehabilitation counselor. There's the kind that says we're a unique thing, we're not the same. And then another group of people that say we're, we kind of do that counseling stuff, it's the same thing. And as professionals we debate about that. And that's been an ongoing thing for decades. Literally decades of like, are we this, are we that? And students are like, I don't care. I just want a job. You know? Right. And as they build that professional identity, the, the question continues, and we talk about this frequently in, in our program at least, of what is the difference and what does it mean? I wanna be interesting, but I also wanna talk about history for just a second because this is kind of important. I just, I was given a book recently by , uh, somebody I could say a mentor friend, whatever, somebody I really highly respect. And it was a little bit , uh, groundbreaking for me. Maybe that's not the right word, but it was important for me. The book is called Beyond Bureaucracy, and it's about a lady named Mary Switzer. You've, you've heard of this?
Pam Shlemon:Yes, I have.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:I've never heard of this. I don't know why, how I've gotten this far in life, and I haven't heard of this. But , uh, I won't go through the whole thing. But basically, here's a lady who , uh, she worked in Washington for many, many years, starting around like the 1930s, twenties , thirties, whatever. And this is kind of the birthplace of our profession, right? Yep . We hear about Frank Parsons in our textbooks, and he started the first agency, whatever, and then a ton of important things happened in Wisconsin and in the world, the Great Depression, world War I , et cetera. Sure . Okay. So I'm not gonna go into all that, but this lady, Mary Switzer, worked tirelessly for decades and eventually ended up being the commissioner of voc rehab in about 1950 mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . One of the things that happened as a result of the World Wars and the Great Depression and all of the New deal policies from FDR is that the government took on an important role and started saying, we need more infrastructure to help people rehabilitate when they come back from war, when they , uh, get injured on the job at railroads and in mines. And that was just a big part of our American history. And she was part of that , uh, part of the birth of our profession was her and her people around that time saying, how do we, how do we show that , uh, or align ourselves professionally with other people, other professionals to show the importance and the quality of this work? And so part of her , uh, thinking was, well, we should be right alongside physiatrists and physicians, people working , uh, you know, kind of making the calls, calling the shots in the medical world. And that worked out for a while. And it, you know, made some important connections and that all that was interesting. But I'll let leave a little bit of suspense for you all to go find out in the book if you wanna read it yourself. But the other thing she did is she said, well, if people have to be of the highest, I think it wasn't her, but it was one of the other people that was around at the time of the highest , uh, maturity or character. She said, well then counseling is maybe an option for that. And so she was kind of the impetus for , uh, adding this counseling piece to the rehabilitation piece. And the reason that I bring all that up is that that was a very intentional decision that was made at one point to align these professions so they could provide a kind of services that overlap and they make sense. Can they be unique? Absolutely. But is there a ton of overlap? Absolutely.
Pam Shlemon:Absolutely. Yep .
Dr. Aaron Mertes:And so this, you know, rehabilitation counseling, if you take those two words and separate 'em, we're kind of stuck on that still, of trying to figure out how are , how are they similar? How are they different? And if this was a Venn diagram with overlapping circles, how much are they overlapping? And what does that mean for our, for who we are? And that's the debate that's been going on for a long time, long before I was born <laugh>. So , uh, and I think that's still happening and it's playing out right now, and in some ways sure is , um, you know, being decided for some of us. But that's another, another part of the conversation. I guess I'll stop there.
Pam Shlemon:There's an antidote , a great antidote in your book about a gentleman who was a CRC and working more in the communications and paperwork process of his company's return to work process. He told you he still saw value in keeping the CRC even though he wasn't doing those evaluations himself. And you write that his story indicates, and I'll quote how important our skills are, even if we don't always understand how they fit. When individuals decide to let their CRC lapse because they don't see the direct connection to their day-to-day role , um, what are they losing out on by letting their CRC lapse?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:When we spoke about the, about credentialing Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> at large certification, licensing, whatever, that some people get it because it's a practical financial decision. And, and if you're paying to renew a certification and paying for continuing education, but you're not working still, to some people that doesn't make a lot of sense. And that's fine if people retire out of their profession. But those other people who see the , I'll use the word extraordinary value and it's just part of their identity. One of the things that I learned when I was in school and continue to be , uh, impressed by or find it important is how people maintain their identity even after they end their careers, like in retirement. And so I think one of the things that can keep people healthy is a sense of who they are, a sense of who they belong to and who their community is. And I, I , I see people holding onto it because of that reason. For some people that makes a lot of sense, and for some people it doesn't. But , um, you know, what are, what is a person missing out on? If we only focus on the financial benefit of our professional lives and not on the social benefit, we lose sight of some of those really important things. And I don't need to get on a soapbox about how, where we get our sense of belonging and our social integration. 'cause we just went through Covid and I think most of us have some pretty good impressions about how that matters to us. But this is just an example of how much our work matters to who we are and how we stay healthy even after retirement or when we switch careers or whatever. So I hope that answers your question.
Pam Shlemon:Yeah. And thank you for sharing that. 'cause I think it's, it's really important as we speaking what you just mentioned about those in retirement who are actually maintaining their certification through a retirement designation so they don't lose it because of that professional identity, their belonging to a place that credential means a lot to them. And they've been in the profession for many, many years. We're struggling with younger professionals coming in who may stay in the field but don't see the value because their employer doesn't value the credential. And I'm always struck by them allowing their certification to lapse because they've invested so much time in going through grad , the grad program, then going and preparing for the CRC, passing the CRC, paying for the CRC and that CRC, while your employer may not value it today, you don't know what tomorrow brings. And the value that credential may have down the road from now I understand economic issues that people have just to say because my employer doesn't value it to me, is , is I I think that there's , um, some disconnect there. One, you are taught to advocate for your clients . CRCs need to advocate for themselves as well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> sometimes difficult. But you need to advocate why it's , why that credential's important. What does that credential mean to your client? Does your client know that you are holding the highest credential in the space that you're getting service from? So does that client know? And those are important things that I think that we're trying to showcase and share with individuals who are contemplating, do I keep the credential? Do I not keep the credential? We have so many people come back to us and say, I let it lapse a year ago. Can I just come back and you can come back? You have to sit for the exam. Oh , I don't wanna sit for the exam. Well, so it , it's a struggle that we face. Um, but we hope through our messaging and some of the work that we're doing, that CRCs will maintain that credential because their own investment in it.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:One of the things that I'm very fortunate to have had is , uh, our faculty members who will introduce me to the profession and how when we become a counselor, it's not just about us and the client, it's about us representing something much bigger and how much, how important that is. And I don't know an answer to this, but I almost get the impression or wonder when people are making individual decisions for themselves, it diminishes the the profession for everybody. And that's not to say that, you know, we that shame on you. You should probably keep it for the benefit of all those other people. 'cause that's not practical. That doesn't make any sense.
Pam Shlemon:Right ? Yeah .
Dr. Aaron Mertes:But I wonder how we as a profession have held ourselves together, and this is kind of a loaded, a loaded word, held ourselves together enough to help people see if they're in those individual dire circumstances and they're in tight financial situations, which as you said, we both completely respect. Sure . What's what sense is it in it for them to, to maintain this, you know, and Right. I try to be really practical and sensible when, when students and , uh, my peers and colleagues, whatever are all making these decisions that they're hard decisions to make.
Pam Shlemon:Absolutely. And
Dr. Aaron Mertes:One of the things I like to try and remind people of and not be too pushy about it, but to say, what might we be not seeing because we're so worried about the money or our current job or our current situation? Is there something more and bigger at stake here? Yeah. Uh , it's not to to like persuade them to keep it or something . It's more just to say like, let's, let's take a step back, calm down if we're a little stressed. 'cause that we get that way and, and make a wise as wise of a decision as possible. Yeah. End of the day, if they make that wise decision and that's what's right for them, so be it. Absolutely. But , um, just wanna be thoughtful.
Pam Shlemon:I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. Um, I wanna talk a little bit about , uh, you joining K Creps board of directors last year. We were very excited as you know, about , uh, your ability to join the board and , um, and the advocacy that you'll have now being on that board. Um , for the field of rehabilitation counseling, given the emphasis on disability and rehabilitation counseling, what challenges exist in the profession's ability to have a seat at the table in the counseling program standards? First
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Of all, if I can share kind of how that happened , um, I, I don't know how I heard of it, but some, somehow there was a call for, Hey, C Crep is looking for a rehabilitation counselor to be a representative on the board. And I kind of poked around and asked my small little network of friends and people that said, you know, is anybody doing this? Is anybody, are we gonna have a seat at the table? And I didn't know, I couldn't figure out an answer. And I said, okay, well somebody needs to do it. Ah , I'm busy. I don't know if I have the time. Oh, that sounds like a lot of work. And frankly, I'm a little nervous because that's the, feels like the big leagues a little bit, you know, <laugh> . And so I said, well, I don't know. Screw it. Somebody's gotta do it. I'll just throw my name in the hat. And one thing led to another. And now here I am. I I get to be a part of that process. And it's, I'm learning a ton. It does provide me a , an opportunity to advocate, which I, I greatly appreciate. So that's kind of how all that happened. One of the things that happened, and I'll try to keep this brief, 'cause I know it's not interesting for maybe many of your listeners, unless you're an educator, this is extremely important for the educational process. But , uh, maybe not for everybody. So one of the things that happened earlier when I talked about there are the people who think we're rehabilitationist and we do career related stuff with people with disabilities. We've, we refer out for counseling. That's just not what we do. And there's the camp of people who say, no, no, we, we understand that part of the rehabilitation process is clinical, that we have to consider both mental and physical conditions and we can assist with that process. And there's those two camps when the, the old accrediting body merged with the new accrediting body. In short, one of the things that happened is now there's two specialty areas. And what that basically means is C WRAP is an organization accredits all these programs. And for those that may not know, accreditation basically is like a third party stamp of approval that you have quality. And there are four educational programs. They accredit school counseling programs, mental health counseling programs, addiction, rehab, when they merged. And the change happened because we have had this debate for so long in our field, there are now two specialty areas. One of 'em is rehabilitation counseling and one of 'em is clinical rehabilitation counseling, which directly mirrors this, this , uh, schism, if you'll allow a goofy word, <laugh> this , uh, this difference, this debate that we've been having for so long. And , uh, I, not to , um, to use names necessarily, but I was having a conversation with the CEO of Krep over dinner one time and we were , uh, altogether in a big group. And I said, so just can you gimme a little bit of background and stuff? 'cause I'm just learning. I'm trying to understand how this all happened. Whatever. And she said in so many words, you know, we've been working on this for a long time and I've really given the opportunity for all the people who have been a part of the process. 'cause there's been quite a few rehab counselors and people who know their stuff, people who I greatly respect Yep . Have been a part of this process. And she said, you guys tell me what you want. What is the field of rehab? How does it work? How do we maintain standards? What is the best kind of counselor that you see that needs to be minimally competent ? All that kind of stuff. And you got a part in that too, Pam. And so the , the moral of the story is that they're really, it seems like they're open to us telling them what we want and we cannot seem to figure out what we want. And that's a big challenge. You know , uh, we're having a hard time agreeing on that. And , uh, not to go too far down this road, but there's other , uh, other things happening. There's so many professional organizations and some of us academics have these debates. How can a rehab counselor in Montana where I live, or Chicago where you guys are, how can they be expected to pay dues membership dues to both their certification to the professional organization and then this other one to over here and then another one. And then travel. There's just so much going on when there's so many conferences and so many people doing these things all over in different pockets. It's really hard for people, if not impossible to be, to participate in that. And as a result, those fractures have led to , uh, CACREP being a little bit confused as to what is going on with us. And they're open. That's the impression that I get from all of the people that I talk to is, we are open. We, we just wanna know, we want you to be a part of this crowd. And I'm not gonna use the word family 'cause I don't wanna need to put those connotations in there, but it is really like it , uh, I get the important that people care and they want to bring us into the fold and say, let's do our best. We all have our vested interest in being our best. What is your best? And we haven't given a clear answer to that.
Pam Shlemon:Yeah. And, and I share that with you. As you know, I've been doing a lot of , working a lot with krep . The CEO has , has explained the same thing. We don't, we can't agree within our own profession of what we want. So there is some challenges that face our profession that we really have to , um, come together and really think hard about the can't , the profession can't continue to go on the way it's going. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , um, with the fragmentation that we have, we should come together as one. We could get so much accomplished if we did. We were able to do that. Yeah . Um ,
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Can can I add to that really quickly? Absolutely. I explained a little bit of my journey learning the history. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , uh, reading that book that I was just mentioning, rehabilitation was envisioned a certain way in that cultural context a hundred years ago. And now we have a new opportunity. That's right. And so, I don't know, I have some personal opinions, but not very strong ones. I don't know the direction to go. I don't know what the best decisions are to make. And frankly, they're not mine to make, I happen to have this seat right now where I have a , a a little bit of influence and representation of an opportunity for advocacy. But I am not the person to make that call. This is a collective decision for all of us to make as a profession. And so I, when people ask me like, where should we do? Where should we be going? I said , I don't know, but we need to figure it out together. And if we can't come together and we can't figure it out, then we're gonna be , um, not adapting to our environment. And all of the Darwin's out there would tell us, Hmm . That's maybe not the thing to do because we kind of need to evolve and adapt to meet circumstances if we're going to survive.
Pam Shlemon:I think what will be challenging is we won't be a professional, it'll be an occupation.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:There you go. Yep .
Pam Shlemon:And so that leads me into something that I'm thrilled to announce that , uh, CRC is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. Um, and those fi 50 years , um, the field of rehab counseling has evolved in many ways. And looking ahead the next 50 years, I can announce that CRC is gonna be ho hosting a national symposium the first ever in March of 2025. Um , details will be following, but this is the opportunity to address exactly what you said. Where does our profession go?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Do we , do we get to put on party hats and those little blanket
Pam Shlemon:We get to? That's right. We get to draw <laugh> , all kinds of things . Um, we're really thrilled about this because it's a symposium. It's not a conference, like a typical conference. Then these are gonna be panel discussions where we all have to really think about the future and imagine, we look back and look at the all the wonderful things this profession has done. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> imagine what the next 50 years would look like. So that's what this symposium is gonna be about. So looking ahead to the next 50 years, and I'm gonna ask you, what trends do you anticipate will shape the career pathways of CRCs ?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Yeah . Or I could pull my crystal ball back out and say, here we go. 50 years. You know, when people go on the news and they're, and they're like, I get , I called it back when, remember? Right . Ill be that guy . I'll be like, I told you so <laugh>. Just kidding. I won't do that. When I think , uh, take a step back for a second and just talk about some of the things that are happening in our world right now. Uh, AI is taking a a center stage right now. Technology has been for a while . Yeah . It's changing our world of work. And all of us know that. Uh , most of us know, you know, that quote that you heard from your grandpa or something that like, well the jobs now in 10 years, they're not gonna be the same. And, you know, that kind of stuff. And so what work looks like in the future and even in the present as we move more home and to, to remote work or distance work of some kind, one of the things rehabilitation counseling is going to have to figure out is how do we place people in those kinds of jobs? 'cause finding 'em is different. Right . You know, I'm actually giving a presentation next week and uh, I was given information by the rehab service administration, somebody there who said we should probably prepare ourselves to be , uh, to help people with entrepreneurial experiences like starting your own businesses and that kind of thing. Uh, and the , it's not just about making a business, which of course I'm kind of biased 'cause I wrote this book about it and that kind of stuff. Sure . But it's more about the Uber drivers who are no longer employees, but they're , uh, subcontractors. I mean, the world of work is just changing so much. Remember our Venn diagram that I described earlier? Yeah . Yeah . Well take another one. So this one has three circles. One circle is disability, one circle's career, and one circle is mental health or counseling. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, when I, when I'm just talking about the world of work changing, that's kind of like, are we prepared to support people in their career decisions, career making ? That's one of our sub skill sets . The other one is disability. A couple years ago , uh, and I guess a couple times since then, I've talked to one another faculty , uh, Phil Rumrill, who's been Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , um, I don't even know why he likes me, but he keeps contacting me and I keep liking him. And so <laugh> , but he's been talking about this, what's coming up, what's next? What's happening soon? The disability world is changing too, the kinds of disabilities that we have. And just to give a little bit of space for that, it used to be back a hundred years ago that people would come back from World War I with vision disabilities and audible disabilities and , uh, physical disabilities. And now as we, our jobs require more cognitive power, brain power , all of the tech jobs and the office jobs and that kind of stuff is adjusting to figure out how we can accommodate and , uh, meet people's career needs given the different landscape of what's gonna be important for us to know about and support. The other part of that Venn diagram is mental health and counseling. And one of the things that I think, again, I don't know, and I don't wanna be , um, contentious or get into debates about this, but if we continue to hold that role as counselor, it gives a special opportunity to address the occupational changes that require more cognitive load. And I'm gonna sound like a nerdy academic here for a second, but also the different disabilities that are emerging. Absolutely. Not just physical, but mental as well. Right . And how those are gonna impact the world of work if we can adjust to embrace that reality. I think if you'll excuse me saying that, I think in the next 50 years, that's gonna be an important part of our future in some way. I don't know what that means for how we identify and what we do at the symposium and make all kinds of big important decisions. But I think we have to think really strongly about those, those things.
Pam Shlemon:Yeah. We ha we certainly have to think about the future and, and how it's different from where it start . You know, everything changes, time changes, things are different. So, and we have to evolve with the changes that are happening around us.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Right.
Pam Shlemon:We don't have an option.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Yeah. Right . Yeah . Absolutely.
Pam Shlemon:So , um, one last question before we leave , uh, today. Many describe becoming A-C-A-C-R-C as a calling. What brings you joy in the work that you do?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Whenever I answer these questions, I try not to be cliche. 'cause I'm like, I gotta think of something really smart sounding and unique, but I <laugh> , you know, but I'm not gonna be, I'm gonna be totally cliche. And one of 'em is the, the, well two , one of 'em is the pe the people. Yeah. Right . 'cause I get to meet all kinds of interesting people and I might be able to do that in all kinds of jobs. Yes. But you talked about the passion that people have earlier, and that is something that, that I just continue to appreciate in others of how important it is . Even when people get mad, they're like, I don't wanna lose the, the identity that I built when I was in the seventies. I don't wanna lose and get really excited about that. And I I still can appreciate that. Right. Yes. I guess the other part of it too is that one of the things that brings me joy is just the diversity and the range of experiences that I get to get to have now. And the , the , the part of that is because of the people. You know, I get to see people from all over the country and meet people who are in all different kinds of occupations and jobs. So I just don't feel like, like I ever get stuck, you know, like there's always an opportunity. There's always a place to go. Um, and I might have to adjust and shift my expectations a little bit and kind of how I orient myself professionally, you know, like what job I'm doing, whatever. But , uh, there's always seems to be something. And if , uh, one other thing too that just popped in my mind, you've had a guest on this podcast a while ago who I've, who I've met before , um, Dr. James McNeil. Yes. And one of the things he said that has stuck with me, and I keep annoying people by repeating it over and over again, is that wherever people with disabilities are, that's where we need to be as well. That's right . And so when I think what, what is next for me in my career and what's next for these students in our programs and their careers, part of the reason I wrote the book the way that I did and have been involved in the communities that I have is because I say people need services, people need supports, and those needs exist out there. But we, I don't think have fully appreciated how to professionally make the connection between what we have to offer and what the needs are. And so some of this <crosstalk> that is
Pam Shlemon:So true.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Part of the joy is figuring out how do we facilitate getting those needs met. It's just making connections with people professionally, economically, politically, personally, all that stuff. And it feels like a challenge. It's never going to end. And that's kind of what keeps me com part of what keeps me coming back to . So I, I think I walked, walked my way into a non cliche answer. Anyway,
Pam Shlemon:<laugh>, you did. And I certainly appreciate that. And as I said in the beginning, you and I have had several multi-layered conversations , um, some pretty deep conversations about the profession and enjoyed all of those. And this is another one. Um, and I so appreciate your perspective, your time that you, you shared with us today to talk a little bit about the field of rehabilitation counseling and about your book as well. Um, before we leave today, how can people, if people are interested in your book, how can they get , get access to your book?
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Oh yeah, sure. So part of my journey too, about writing this was , um, self-publishing. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> mostly because I didn't know how to publish with anybody else. So I just had to figure it out, you know, and that's just kind of my style, I guess. Um, so I'm selling it off of my website, which is just aaron murti.com , A-A-R-O-N-M-E-R-T-E s.com. It's also up on Amazon , uh, but for personal bias reasons, if you buy it on Amazon, Amazon gets more money and less comes to me that I get to put back in the profession. So do the do with that what you will <laugh> you get it however you want to, if you want it, if you don't. This has been a fun project for me and I think a contribution to the profession, hopefully. Um, but , uh, I, I try to take a really practical view. I'm not here to sell books. I'm here to give information and I want people to have , uh, to be able to make wise choices. So , um, I'm a bad marketer.
Pam Shlemon:I think you've done a phenomenal job today providing information, so, and your book does that as well. So it has been a true pleasure and I look forward to many conversations in the very near future with you , um, and working together with you. So thank you for your time. Um, and we'll be in touch soon.
Dr. Aaron Mertes:Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Pam Shlemon:Thanks again to Dr. Aaron Murti for that engaging conversation. If you're interested in purchasing Dr. Mertis's book, you can find a link in the show notes. If you have any takeaways or insights on topics covered in this episode, email us at contact us@crccertification.com. Be sure to subscribe to this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC sir , and our website is crc certification.com. Until next time, I'm Pam Schleman. Thank you for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling.