Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Exploring the CVE Certification with Lisa Byrne, MA, CRC, CVE, LCPC
The Certified Vocational Evaluator certification, or CVE, is a high-demand specialty within rehabilitation counseling. CVEs possess unique, comprehensive, and holistic proficiencies in evaluation, career assessment services, and job placement cases. The CRC-CVE dual certification can also provide clients and employers with higher success rates and overall better client outcomes.
Lisa Byrne was instrumental in the revitalization of the CVE certification under CRCC, and on this episode, she shares with us the scope of the specialization and why it’s important for clients and employers.
Learn more about the CVE Certification and apply for the February 2024 cohort here: https://crccertification.com/cve-get-certified/
Hello and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, presented by the Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification. I'm Pam Schleman, executive director of C R C C, and we're so glad to have you here for another conversation on the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. The Certified Vocational Evaluator certification or C V E is a high demand specialty Within rehabilitation counseling, CVEs possess unique, comprehensive, and holistic proficiencies in evaluation, career assessment and job placement cases. The C R C C V E dual certification can also provide clients and employers with higher success rates and overall better client outcomes. Lisa Byrne was instrumental in the revitalization of the C V E certification under C R C C, and on today's episode, she shares with us the scope of specialization and why it's important for clients and employers. Good morning. Hi Lisa. Thank you for joining us on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm so excited to speak with you today about the work you're doing. We are hearing from so many emerging professionals on how to transition into private practice. As a certified rehab counselor and a certified vocational evaluator, you have a wide range of expertise in vocational rehabilitation case management, disability litigation support, expert witness and rehabilitation counseling. And I cannot forget transition services. You also have extensive experience working with veterans, adults with disabilities from rehabilitation agencies, transitioning students, injured workers, providing litigation support and vocational expert testimony. And you also have consulted with various school districts and presented at the national level. So you have a , as I mentioned, a lot of experience. Can you tell us why you decided to pursue a career in rehabilitation counseling and what drew you to the work? Sure,
Lisa Byrne:Sure. Thank you. Actually, like a lot of rehabilitation counselors, I feel like we kind of fall into the field through different routes. Um, I hear that from most everybody. I probably started thinking knowing I wanted to do something working or helping people, I was actually thinking something, maybe nursing. Um, I have an SS in my how and code for any other vocational evaluators listening. But , um, so I was in that realm and then I kind of , at the program I was at, I learned , um, through meeting people just about rehabilitation counseling and nursing wasn't feeling like a completely perfect fit. Um, and so I, you know, transitioned over. I was also , uh, initially interested in , um, working with the deaf population. The program I was at had a specialty in , uh, deafness rehabilitation counseling at the time, so I was learning sign language. Um, and then they also, in addition to that specific population, they did talk about rehab counseling in general and focused on, you know, all of the different facets of rehab, counseling, all of the various different disabilities. They just also touched on deafness and had a focus on learning American sign language there. Through that is kind of how I got into broad rehab counseling. And I have the specialty of, I guess, working with that population too.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:As I mentioned earlier, you hold the Certified Rehabilitation Counselor certification and the certified vocational EED evaluator credential. Can you share the difference between the two for our listeners and how both of the credentials compliment each other?
Lisa Byrne:Yes. So I think Certified Rehabilitation Counselor is, it's kind of like the Nationwide Gold Standard. It shows you have all the nuts and bolts of general rehab counseling, and then really I think the C B E or Certified Vocation Evaluator is really kinda like a specialty. Um, so you know, all of rehab counseling, but then you also have , um, the specialty in evaluation and testing and , um, how that data from the testing actually informs the rest of your rehab counseling work.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:You were instrumental in the revitalization of the C V E and for our listeners, the C V E was sunsetted by its previous organization, and C R C had been the beneficiary of what is what was known as a C V E in the maintenance mode. And a few years back , uh, C R C C decided to revitalize the C V E credential because of the demand for it. And , uh, you were part of that instrumental revitalization. Can you walk us through a bit of the history of the certification and the work that went into revitalizing the C V E ?
Lisa Byrne:Yes, there was a kind of this big hole that was left. So you had this mix of people out there who had been doing certified vocational evaluator work. They were CVEs and then you had new people getting into it, but then there was like this big gap. So the , the way to become certified and show that you have this kinda specialty in the testing was gone. Um, so there were a little bit of patchwork <laugh> things that popped up trying to kind of make it through that time. But , um, yes, then I think revitalizing it really, really helped now provide an avenue for people who want that specialty to be able to get into that field. So yeah, there was a great team of people who worked in , uh, the development of it, one of the other team leaders. I like how she put it, she kind of put it as a , um, it was moving from a kind of standardized norm reference assessment to demonstrate your knowledge of vocational evaluation, changing it to what the current model is, more of a criterion referenced assessment so that you can demonstrate you have the ability to perform the work.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:So let me ask you this. If you are A C R C and you do evaluations currently, how does this credential and the knowledge behind the credential differ? So if I'm a C R C and I'm doing some of the work, how does this credential differ from the what you, from your knowledge base already? Well,
Lisa Byrne:It, it really, I think, adds to it . So you have the basic C R C credential that I think everyone really demonstrates your knowledge of rehabilitation counseling. And then the certified vocational evaluator again, just shows that that specialty of understanding the testing and how it applies to working with people with disabilities and , um, how that data and information can then just kind of really help the rest of your rehab counseling work. Or may , maybe you're providing the data or testing for another certified rehab counselor and you're, you have the specialty in the testing to then help them do a better job with their client that they're working with .
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:How crucial is a C V E for the profession? Uh ,
Lisa Byrne:I do think it's, it's very crucial. Um, I think this is a, a really key part of the field and providing, you know, it's gathering more information and so that just helps you better get to know the person and, and how, you know, whatever field you're kind of working at and , you know, big rehab counseling, it just provides more data and information to help guide and make, make the best plan that's the most appropriate. Do
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:You advocate for the importance of the assessment and the evaluation as a practice setting within rehabilitation counseling? For those not working in this setting? Can you describe what that entails?
Lisa Byrne:Yes . So it's , um, using , uh, standardized assessments to that are out there and using them to gather more data and information about a client that you're working with. So , um, if you're, particularly if you're working on job placement or vocational , um, goals, you wanna , you know, it provides more information on what would be appropriate goals or, you know, what are their interests, what do they want to do, what are their aptitudes, what are their skills, what is a good fit , um, are there any accommodations that might be needed? Um, any barriers, any skills they need to develop do is, you know, do they need more training or schooling , um, to get the to their goals. So yeah, it provides a lot of information that then can help develop a better rehab plan.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:How can A C R C looking to pursue vocational evaluation break into the practice setting, and what positions or roles should they be seeking? Well,
Lisa Byrne:For me, I think the, the best thing was having a really good mentor. So if I , uh, any kind of mentor you can find out there who is a certified vocational evaluator and doing vocational evaluations, I would say link up with one <laugh> . So that was really the most beneficial. As a c rc, you get some basics in evaluation and testing. So there's, there's like, you know, you're an intru to VO eval kind of class out there. Um, but to do it kind of full-time or really more in depth , I think you really need more experience. And then, you know, through , uh, a mentor is probably the, I think, the most helpful because you are not only learning the different assessments and things like that, but also, you know, diff just different tricks of the trade and things that come up and, you know, accommodations and things that are successful. And then you have that, you know, just mentorship on how, how to document and how to report and how, what that means for the rehab plan and things like that. So I think a mentor is , um, was crucial to my development , um, as a vocational evaluator.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:Thank you for bringing up seeking out a mentor and being a mentee or being a mentee. That is something that C r C recognizes of importance for our CRCs, whether they've been in the field for years or in looking to transition into a private practice or they're emerging , uh, professionals that are looking to gain more information and learn more from the profession by somebody that's been in the field for such a long time. So I'm gonna say this now and , and soon there'll be more information about this, but C R C is developing mentorship program to help in those efforts , um, because we see the value in that. So the next question I have for you is , um, you've been with the eval center for over 15 years now, and you're current , you're currently the president of Eval Center. Can you tell us a little bit about the center and what it was like pursuing a private practice ? And again, I'm always gonna ask for our listeners, what advice would you offer them if they're interested in going down this path?
Lisa Byrne:Sure. Well, again, I, I guess I was kinda lucky I, this started with my , uh, mentor. Jim Boyd had actually gone out and started via Vail Center initially. And so we , uh, a group of us who had worked together prior had kind of , um, followed him and went on his new endeavor. And then as he retired, we had a , uh, and moved towards retirement actually. We had , um, a transition period where we had moved for to my taking over the eval center. So I'm glad to hear that. Uh, the C R C is starting a mentorship program. I do think mentorship is important. There are , um, professional organizations is another way to get out and get it involved. Um, there are private practice professional organizations, there are public professional organizations. There's a lot of , um, ways to get out and get involved on a professional level. So anyway , you can kind of connect with other more seasoned rehab counselors or vocational evaluators and connect and work together. Um, I think it just betters the field overall.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:So what is the sum of the work that you do at the eval center?
Lisa Byrne:So we specialize in vocational evaluations, so with a wide variety of populations. So we have kind of that specialty of the testing, but we are all certified rehabilitation counselors as well. And really we work with a variety of clients. I know you mentioned a lot of them in the beginning intro. So we have a contract with the state division of rehab services here in Illinois. Um, so we work with a variety of offices doing , um, the testing and then helping the state rehab counselors work with their clients , um, for, to meet their employment goals. We also work with a variety of populations from transition students , um, to workers' compensation. Sometimes we are working on, you know, with litigation issues going on that involve rehabilitation counseling. Um, we've worked with veterans, different policies that involve rehabilitation counseling. So yes, kind of a, a a wide variety of areas.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:I'm gonna ask a question because we receive a lot of , uh, inquiries about specifically litigation expert testimony. Can you describe, I know we only have so much time, but can you describe what is entailed in what you do when you're an expert witness or working for an attorney or, or a client in litigation, a workers' comp case? Can you just touch upon that because we have so many people asking us, what, what does that, what does that mean and what do they do?
Lisa Byrne:It's almost, well , uh, workers' compensation. So it's, and the VA really, it's almost like, so someone is injured on a job , um, and whether it be at a private employer or whether it be with a federal employer or whether it be whatever situation , um, injured on a job, and then sometimes they can go back to their job. That's kind of the ideal role. But then sometimes the injuries are so significant they can't return to their prior job. So if they can't go back to their , um, prior role, then a lot of times the rehabilitation counselor will get involved to then help , um, identify okay, what other jobs that can they do? So sometimes it is involving testing. So sometimes we do this, we do some evaluation tools to find out, okay, what else can they do ? Can they go directly into another job? Would they require some training? Kind of what's needed to get them, you know, back to employment, maybe not at their former role. So some rehab counselors work for insurance companies mm-hmm . <affirmative> , um, that are covering a private employer and then, you know, help with that role. And then sometimes there are rehab counselors outside of working for an insurance company that, you know, provide the same type of information.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:Thank you for sharing that. 'cause I , I think it demonstrates the importance of , uh, a certified rehab counselor and , and the C V E and their expertise in making sure that em , that employee that gets injured on the job can get back to work and understanding what their limitations are if they have any. But really that's the expertise of a certified reup counselor or a certified vocational evaluator. Lisa, how would you like to see the profession expand? Are there sectors or industries that you believe should be hiring more CRCs?
Lisa Byrne:Um, well just being focused on the vocational evaluation field, I do think there should be more , uh, training programs specific to that. There , there were prior specific, you know, graduate programs that focused fully on vocational evaluation. Um, so I would love to see if it , some of those come back in some way or another. I think vocational evaluation is , um, uh, you know, it's kind of being pulled back. There was this gap and so now it's coming back so it could come fully back with some structured training. That would be fantastic. Um, as far as Fields one, where I really think , um, certified rehab counselors can be helpful is in transition. It's kind of the same situation working with students is they are, you know, they're typically students with disabilities who have received special education services and typically the rehab counselor, or often where I get involved is , um, when they're getting ready to start to transition out of, out of high school and into employment or into whatever's next that after high school. Right now, I know a lot of schools have a focus of hiring certified teachers. Um, so I think if you , if certified rehab counselors would be just another certification that would be approved and schools could get funding to support hiring rehab counselors, that would be fantastic. Um, because we're, we're really the experts for , um, that knowledge of what's next after high school. That's one field. I think that could be a large growth and it's needed. And
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:I should mention to our listeners that the C V E can be acquired , um, obtained if you have your C R C, that's how this , it works right now. So you must have the C R C in order to obtain the C V E credential. So the last question I'd like to ask you, Lisa, is many describe becoming a C R C as a calling. What brings you joy in the work that you do?
Lisa Byrne:Gosh, everything <laugh>. Um, I do, I , um, I do love my job <laugh> . Um, I sometimes hear people complain about their job and I have nothing to say because I really love my job. Um, so I think everything, I love the variety of it, you know, that every person is new and different and every situation is new and different. Really, like everything about my job <laugh> my job . So as much as I love my job, you know, the idea, I put the same effort forth to try to find really the right fit for whatever client I'm working with, or give them some different options of different fields that they have the potential to be successful within the future . I hope to that every client will have the same satisfaction in their work that I have.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:Well, we appreciate the work that you're doing, of course. And thank you for sharing , um, about a little bit about the C V E and the importance it brings to the clients and the employers. We look forward to hearing more.
Lisa Byrne:Well, thank you so much for having
Pam Shlemon, CRCC:Thanks again to Lisa Byrne for that engaging conversation. If you are interested in becoming a C V E, we are currently accepting applications for the February, 2024 cohort. Additional cohorts of the C V E program will begin in June and November of 2024. As a reminder, you must be a current c r C to pursue the C V E . You can find more information on the C V E program in the podcast notes. If you have any takeaways or insights on topics covered in this episode, email us at contact us@crccertification.com. Be sure to subscribe to this show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC Cert , and our website is crc certification.com. Until next time, I'm CRC executive director, Pam Schleman . Thank you for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling.