Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Veterans Career Program at the Paralyzed Veterans of America with Charles McCaffrey, MBA, and Genia Hachenberg, CRC, MS
Taylor talks to Charles McCaffrey, MBA, and Genia Hachenberg, CRC, MS at the Paralyzed Veterans of America about their Veterans Career Program. The program employs CRCs located all over the country to provide free employment support and vocational counseling assistance to all veterans, transitioning service members, spouses, and caregivers.
Learn more about the PVA's Veterans Career Program.
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Hello, and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, presented by the Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification. I'm Taylor Bauer with CRCC, and we're so glad to have you here for another conversation on the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and this year's theme is Access to Good Jobs for All. On this episode of the podcast, we thought we'd explore the correlation between disability and employment within a particular community of clients. CRCs often serve veterans . Charles McCaffrey is the director of the Veterans Career Program at the Paralyzed Veterans of America, and he joins us on this episode with one of the certified rehabilitation counselors on his team and associate director of the program, Gina Hackenberg . Charles and Gina spoke to me about the PVAs initiatives to help all veterans, including an inciting new initiative focused on self-employment. You'll also hear their thoughts and considerations for CRCs working with veterans, the importance of the CRC credential in providing vocational services and why the counselor client relationship is truly one that lasts for life. We hope you enjoy this conversation, Gina, as the CRC present on this call. I kind of wanted to start with you today. Uh, we asked all of our guests to walk us through how they came to find rehabilitation counseling. Uh, what was your first encounter with the field and what drew you to the work you're doing now?
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:Well, I was on the typical path for , um, a psychology degree and , and a bachelor's program. So I was thinking therapeutic type counseling. And our program had short internships called Jan Terms. The two that I chose in my last two years of school were , uh, one was at the Shepherd Center here in Atlanta that works with persons with spinal cord injury , and the other was a drug and alcohol rehab center. And what I found myself being drawn to was the action oriented, you know, the, the planning, putting the pieces together versus the, you know, one-on-one therapy type sessions. Um , so I saw all the different pieces of the puzzle that people had to put together to coordinate and get to that next chapter in their life. Um, and then after getting my bachelor's , uh, what sealed the deal was looking at Georgia State's Master's program here in Atlanta that had a , a really robust , uh, rehabilitation counseling with Dr. Roger Weed at the helm. Um, so I got really peaked by that and , and understood that it was much more action oriented , um, and the type of counseling that I wanted to be involved in. So it was a great, great stepping stone.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Charles, can you walk us through a bit of your work history and how you came to your role with the PVA? Sure .
Speaker 3:Um , you know , when I left the military, so kind of two things. One is went through , um, the Transition assistance program. Um, this was 2005 , um, and it basically was here's how you wear a suit, here's how you write a resume, here's how you get your VA benefits, good luck. Um, and so after, you know, after all this time, making me into a sailor, they didn't really know how to make me into a civilian. Um, and so, you know, like a lot of veterans, you know, thought, you know, Hey, I , I've gotta get a job right away. Um, instead of taking the time to determine what it was outside of the military that I wanted to do. Um, so I went to work , uh, for a defense contractor making good money, but didn't particularly enjoy it. Right? And so , uh, along the way, a friend of mine and I started a restaurant. So, I mean, you go from military and cybersecurity to an Italian deli in central Pennsylvania is a, is a very big shift. You know, I went back to school and got a a , a master's degree, you know , so over the, God , we're almost coming up on 20 years now. Um, you know, I've been unemployed, employed, self-employed school, you name it. So I had done all of these things in, in 20 years, and I still joke with folks that I still don't know what I wanna do when I grow up. And so, you know , had been a counselor , um, an SVA , uh, small business administration resource partner, teaching veterans and spouses how to start businesses. And funny enough was, was in a storytelling class, and that was how I connected with somebody from PVA, had no idea what PVA was. Um, and I think like a lot of veterans, they hear paralyzed veterans of America. You go , uh, I'm not paralyzed, so doesn't apply to me . Um , and so a couple years down the road, she was like, Hey, we, we have this position as our , uh, associate director of, of the career program. I think you would be really good because of your experiences. And I , you know, I think that's one of the things that veterans in particular, we look out for other veterans. Um, we may do the good natured ribbing of, you know, army versus Navy or whatever, but we take care of our own. And so, you know, interviewed for the job, saw what it was doing, thought about other things I could bring on. Um , absolutely love my, my staff, my team of counselors. Um, and so been been on board almost three years now with, with the career program.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:That's amazing. You know, I feel like we don't talk enough about the cybersecurity to Italian deli career pipeline <laugh> . Um, it hasn't come up on the podcast before, so I'm glad we get to touch on it a little. It's, it's funny how we hear a lot of people, we've heard from CRCs as well, that you often with a career, you kind of have to find your way. And it's incredible that you've both ended up with the PVA and doing such amazing work, and it's been really wonderful to get to, to learn more about the, the work you're doing. And specifically on the Veterans Career Program. Um, can you tell us a bit about the program and some of the services that you provide to your stakeholders?
Speaker 3:Sure. So, so the focus is, it is veterans with disability, and specifically those with spinal cord injury, disease discord , um, a as the organization's name implies, we just found that like within that community, the family unit is important. So providing career assistance for spouses, for adult children, for caregivers , um, who in many cases are all three of those, you know, the caregiver is the spouse who was a veteran , uh, sort of thing. And so we're , we're fairly unique in that we, we really try to say yes to everybody who has a military affiliation. So if you're transitioning from the, from the military, if you've been out for four months or 40 years , um, we don't look at , um, your discharge or criminal background as far as eligibility for assistance, because a lot of times those folks who didn't necessarily have the best military career are the ones who need the, the assistance most. Um, so, so we, you know, we really are a , a a Say Yes. Um, we started, so the program started in 2007, but I kind of want to jump ahead to just before the pandemic. You know, we had been going out to career fairs, which takes a lot of time, a lot of money for travel and everything. And we weren't necessarily meeting our core constituency travel difficulty. Um , and , and heard from them that they felt a little patronized when they went to job fairs that it was like, oh, yeah, you're a veteran with a disability. Um, but they got sent to the same application website, and the resume and application just kind of got lost in a black hole. So we started before the pandemic, what we call Veteran Square Live . It's, it's just a Zoom session. Um, but we're able to, you know, every week do an hour introductory session on what is it , what is tailoring your resume mean, and why is it important? Or , um, you know , Gina does a number of sessions on disability benefits and implications with going back to work or starting a business. We bring on educational profess professionals. We bring on companies that have strong veteran and disability programs. Um, and so that's, that's kind of our , our countrywide reach or nationwide reach , um, really to get folks to understand that we are more than just , um, paralyzed Veterans of America. Uh, and then to get them connected with one of our counselors. So there's 10 of us , uh, around the country , um, that are either , uh, uh, CRCs or employment , uh, specialists and , and really trying to understand what the individual's desires are, their abilities, wishes, all of that , um, and connecting them not only with the right , uh, or with a counselor, but with the right counselor , um, with , with the background and everything. And so , um, those are kind of the, the two big things. And then the third thing I would say our program encompasses is the advocacy. So talking to federal agencies, talking to employers , uh, you name it , uh, on behalf of Veteran Employment and Veterans with disability employment.
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:I would just build on that, that we jokingly call ourselves artisanal or boutique services, <laugh> <laugh> , because there are , um, organizations that feel a little bit more cookie cutter or conveyor belt like services with, here's a resume, here's a class, kind of like the transition services, here's a mock interview video type thing. But we really try to delve deep into who the person is , um, holistically, which is, you know, the heart of, of voc rehab counseling, to look at all aspects of their life and , um, make sure they're able to navigate and, and get to where they wanna go, not necessarily where we think they should go. So just really individualized services. Charles touched on the Navigating Benefits programs. Um, we are an employment network for Social Securities Ticket to Work program, and we have a lot of our clients that are on SSCI and have to figure out how to protect their benefits or appeal overpayment that can get quite overwhelming. So we're proud to be able to serve them in that way.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:I know as I was kind of getting into the world of working with CRCC , um, navigating those benefit systems and just different programs federally or at the state level was something that I found really profound about the work that that CRCs do, because those are, especially if you've never, if you haven't lived in that space for your life, right, it's, it's very overwhelming to be dealing with this new lived experience on top of all these different formalized bureaucratic systems that have very strict rules, and you have to make sure you're doing everything correctly to get the benefits and everything. So it's great to have allies to be able to guide you through that process. I feel like that's , um, one of the things that I hear a lot when we, when we talk to folks about what CRCs do that they always wanna highlight, because obviously the vocational history of the, of , of the credential and of rehabilitation counseling as a profession at large, is I is well known for people who know who rehab counselors are. But yeah, navigating those, those benefit systems are, are is something I find , um, really profound about the work that CRCs do with clients
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:Starting in , in the field and learning about voc rehab. I didn't anticipate having to learn such a technical government program that wasn't on my radar, but it's, it's a huge part of how we try to protect our clients.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah. Well, and you used a word that we love to use a lot, which is, you know, holistic, right? So working with a client and trying to get them a , a meaningful career that they're going to feel empowered by and , and valued in , um, is, is only part of that experience of working with someone , um, like a CRC and , and or someone on your team. So, especially for folks who are coming out of a master's program, they're like, I'm gonna go counsel. I'm gonna go talk to people about, you know, functional limitations and , um, you know, assess different career skills that they have and, and what their goals are. And then, yeah , all of a sudden you're having to dive into , um, social security benefits and all these different sorts of programs and , uh, that functional knowledge that CRCs brain like yourself , um, are invaluable to clients. And something that we definitely want people to know , uh, when they're, you know, maybe , um, experiencing a disability for the first time, or they were born with one that, you know, seeking out the services of A CRC, this is something that they can assist you with, which is great. You know, we've talked a little bit about, you know, the fact that there are CRCs on your team with the Veterans Career program , uh, which is obviously, you know, our bread and butter right? Is , uh, serving the CRCs that we credential and, and help to provide continuing education too . Um, Charles, I kind of wanna start with you for this two part question. Um, what knowledge and skills do you identify in the CRCs on staff that make them effective and essential to the goals of your program?
Speaker 3:You know , working very closely with Gina, you know, looking at kind of a standard resume, if you will, of , uh, experiences the CRC would have. Um, so I want the, the, the knowledge base, but I think the bigger thing that I look for , um, it is , uh, creative thinking because every, as Gina mentioned, we don't take a cookie cookie cutter approach. Um, and everybody's going to be a little different. And I, I want to give my CRCs the, the leeway to do that , um, but also have them have the fearlessness , um, to, to do that, right? Um, a lot of times the, the counselors are faced with problems that have nothing to do with careers, right? So it could be homelessness, could be food security, it could be mental or physical health issues. Um, and while we don't try to reinvent the wheel , um, having them be able to say, yep , so let's find you the resource to take care of this or that, or, or , or whatever it is. Um, on the career side specifically, probably one of my favorite one stories is , um, having a client who was an electrician in the military, was an electrician on the civilian sector, suffered a spinal cord injury. And when he had recovered enough that he wanted to talk about employment, you know, the counselor was like, oh , do you , you know, do you wanna stay in the electrician field? Um, and , and we see this a lot that having an injury or a traumatic experience like this changes your worldview on things and said, you know , um, I've always wanted to be a chef at kind of like going from cybersecurity to a Italian deli, you know, going from an electrician to being a chef. Um, food seems to be a common theme here, which I can totally understand. Um , oh yeah. But it, you know, and , and having the counselor be able to say, okay, so let's find you a culinary arts program. Let's find you the transportation to get to that program. Let's find you , uh, a restaurant that maybe has an accessible kitchen that they're looking to hire , um, type of things. And, and being able to , to go 180 degrees out from where they maybe had started. Um, I think that's probably the, the biggest skill , um, that, that I look for. Um, not a , a a little bit of off balance , um, where I love my team , um, but we are , we are pretty kooky. Um, and so being , being able to relate to the team and, and , and everything is, you know, is also a big , uh, part of it.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:I love that. Yeah. If everybody was super normal, I mean, what's interesting about that, right? Everyone kind of has their own unique perspective, and then you start melding people's different personalities together, and yeah , you get this little mix of like a work family who all kind of bring something a little different to the table. And , and that definitely helps a dynamic, I think, when you're working together. Exactly . Um, Gina, I wanna ask you kind of in the similar vein as a CRC , uh, yourself, working with other certified professionals , um, on your team across the country, right? Um, how important is it that many of your peers hold that same CRC credential as you, and what difference does that make in your collective outcomes as a team?
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:Uh , it's incredibly important and, and we've seen a lot of pushback , um, across the field in different environments where there's saying, you know , it's not necessarily that important and you can still do similar positions, but for me , um, it's just night and day. When I meet somebody that's been through the same training, they have an instinct that is undeniable. So I talk about triage a lot with, with our team in terms of when you get a case, you know, A CRC is automatically their brain's going in 20 different directions, like going through a checklist of all the areas and then putting them in order of , you know, like I say , triage, which one's most important to start with. Um, and we're thinking of who we need to network with and collaborate with. Um, so I , I just don't see that at the same level with folks that haven't been through the CRC certification process and training. Um, and we're really fortunate with our team, because I tell everybody, I've worked in a lot of different environments, but this is the best job I've ever had at PVA, because it really is pure voc rehab and CRCs who have been in, you know, workers' comp environments or , uh, life care planning or just all sorts of environments, you're , you tend to have more than one agenda or , or people or entities that you're serving. And at PVA, our , our directive is do what's best for this person no matter what. Um, and so it's such a gift as A-A-C-R-C to , to be given that environment and to really do what we were trained for and what brought us to the field in the first place.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah, that's wonderful to hear. I think, you know, that kind of client driven focus in this work is, is where the profession started, and that's where we see that people who not only have the most success in 2024, but who are most fulfilled in the work they're doing. 'cause like you said, people who go on to be A CRC feel very passionate about the work they do and , and , and providing services for individuals with disabilities. And when you're in an environment where that's not the main goal, I think it shows, it shows in folks we speak to or hear from , um, and their job satisfaction as a counselor. You know, if that's not the focus and there are other things in the way, it can be very difficult to feel like you are fulfilling the purpose that you sought out , uh, professionally and you know, personally, right? This is very meaningful work to people on every level, right? So it , it's always great to, to, you know, the first conversation I had with both of you, I was like, oh, it's so great to see people who get it right. And , and then the work you're doing is so impactful and it speaks for itself and in the client stories that you share. And it , it's just wonderful to see , um, people like Gina who are in this profession for a reason, who are so great at what you do, and you're in the space to be able to do that. And it's this perfect , uh, formula for really meaningful life-changing work. So thank you. Um, and thank you both for, you know, making that a declared initiative and kind of philosophy for, for , for the program that you're running. One of the things that I read, you know, when we first spoke was that you, you view as an organization, the Veteran's Career Program as a partnership for life. And I, I found that to be very profound because some of the, the pushback we hear from people who feel like, again, they may be not in a great environment , uh, for, for voc rehab or for , uh, rehabilitation counseling , um, they, they feel like, you know, my job is to get a client a job , and then hopefully they stay in that job for X amount of time, and then that's it. So I'm curious, you know, what is the motivation behind the ideology that the client counselor relationship doesn't end, you know, simply because someone has landed a job?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I, I think, you know, the, the big motivation is actually before we even have a relationship, a a lot of the folks that we talked to, they were given very bad advice , um, that it was like, Hey, you have a hundred percent disability through the va, take your benefit. Um, literally sit back , uh, and, and don't worry about working or starting a business because you could lose those benefits. Some of those folks have been doing that for 20, 30 years, and as I think all of us got a feel for it during covid , that that isolation and social separation is, is not healthy. Um, and so, you know, physically and mentally , um, they , they found , uh, themselves suffering and, and so now they, they see that comment or that philosophy, or they see what we're doing, and it's like, Hey, even though I've been out of the workforce for 30 years, this organization is willing to help me get back. Uh, and, and they understand that, and they understand not just the , uh, again, not just the financial piece of it, but the, the physical emotional piece of it. Um, and I think it also speaks to understanding the, the family unit, and again, especially with persons with disability and how important that is, that it, you know, while the individual might not be able to work as much, maybe their caregiver who is an adult , uh, family member needs assistance, and it's like, you know, yes, absolutely. We'll be able to, to help. And then there is that , um, you know, after the, and I hate using the term placement because that's more of a recruiting thing, but it, you know, that's what it is. You know, so we place somebody , um, but they may find that , um, they need accommodations that they hadn't thought of, and they need somebody to talk to about, Hey, how do I approach my boss , uh, about this accommodation that, that I need? You know, am I gonna get fired if I didn't reveal something, you know, type of thing. And, and, you know, being able to say, no , absolutely. You know, let's, let's work with you on that. Um, somebody gets into a , a job and they're like, this was not what I thought it was gonna be, you know, and it's like, okay, yeah. So let's, let's find you something that is. And so I , I I, I , I think the biggest thing, and, and Gina and I have talked about this before too, about this program is , is , um, providing hope. And, and I think having that as a, as a, you know, really something we believe in being a partner for life, I think it, it helps drop barriers. I think it helps , um, with providing hope. 'cause a lot of times with especially veterans who have recently experienced a traumatic , uh, uh, incident , um, they're, they're more focused on recovery. Although, you know, they are thinking about what's, what my life is gonna be like. But, you know, it's, it's the spouse and the parents who have those questions as well. And being able to have those conversations and say, yeah, at some point , uh, life's gonna be different. Um, but it doesn't mean it's over, right? And , and when you are ready, we'll be ready, you know, type of thing . So that, that's my take on it.
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:Yeah, I agree with all of that. Um, just from a , a slightly different angle with, you know, you've got your folks that have been been in the military community leave no one behind. And as Charles mentioned , um, looking out for each other is just a huge component of that military community. So , um, saying , you're gonna be there and you're gonna show up no matter what's going on is , is a really common theme. So we take that very seriously in terms of , um, saying what we mean, meaning what we say, you know, just because , uh, you had something change in your life, perhaps , uh, your disability was aggravated and you can no longer do that job. You know, we're still gonna be there. And , and I recognize that it is a luxury. I know I've worked in different environments where whether it be the state or , um, the third party administrator with insurance, the insurance world, you, you know, you don't have a lot of choices. It's, it's got a very specific goal. Get the job, get 'em , you know, off the caseload, so to speak. So I , I do recognize that being at a private nonprofit with this mission is , is a wonderful , um, gift to me and to all the people that we serve . Um, and yeah, I, I just don't think voc rehab or rehabilitation counseling is meant to be , um, time limited and, and contained. I mean, we are, that holistic word comes up again, we're looking at the whole person, and they may wanna get another degree, they may need to save a job because as Charles mentioned, more accommodations are needed. Um, they may want to look at a completely different field or , um, transition off of their, you know, benefits onto a new position or get back onto benefits after they, you know, have been working for a while because that disability , um, perhaps to generate it , it got worse. Um, so yeah, just looking at the whole person and how they may evolve and , and their needs would change, you know, to me is, is the essence of rehabilitation counseling, not, not something that's meant to be boxed in and contained.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Something that I run into a lot when I speak to folks who work in the field is, you know, we have misconceptions about, about individuals with disabilities, and sometimes we try to put them in a different bucket than the rest of us, right? So this idea, and you mentioned Gina and Charles, you mentioned it as well, the idea that you would just think, oh, I'm, I want to try this for a career, and then you would do it. And that's 100% of the time gonna be exactly what you enjoy doing and what you're passionate about. And, you know, case close , that's not always the case, right? I think a lot of us have an idea of something they want , we want to do. We try it out and we're like, Ooh , that's not quite it. But there are elements that I want to continue to explore. And I think that partnership for life is so crucial because especially navigating a new disability, you are trying to figure out a lot all at once. And there are going to be moments where you head in one direction and you realize it's time to redirect. And having a partner, you know, in your team to be able to navigate those things and come back and say, Hey, this wasn't quite what I thought it was gonna be. Um, that's, that's so impactful for anybody, right? To have that support system that can say, okay, well, what's working for you and what's not, and how do we mitigate these different , um, expectations that have maybe kind of not gone the way that you thought they were going to go. So , um, that , that , that's really great to hear. Yeah . That that's, you know, part of what you're all about. We talked a little bit about , um, the, the , the veterans Career live , uh, sessions that you're running. And Charles, you had shared with me via email , um, a really interesting , uh, perspective that, you know, a lot of people with disabilities are, have opted out of traditional employment, but they do still consider self-employment an opportunity. And I know from our first discussion, that was something that you've kind of leaned into, particularly post covid as you've not been doing the , um, the in-person job fairs as much and opting for these, these live sessions ha have these , uh, veterans career live webinars and, you know, kind of conversations been a , a place to explore those self-employment skills and opportunities. And, and how have , um, your stakeholders responded to those opportunities and , um, exploring that as an option for, for what they could do professionally?
Speaker 3:We've seen incredible response. I, I would say, so we do probably about 90 sessions a year , um, with about 10,000 people who sign up. Um, we, we always try to encourage them to, to participate live so they can ask questions, but that's part of the reason of doing it as Zoom and and recording it, is , um, you know, you may not be able to get away from a meeting or whatever. So we always make the , um, the session recordings a avail available to everybody. Um, what's been great is the, the diversity of what we're able to discuss on these. Um, you know, so last year there was a lot of focus on student loan forgiveness. So we were able to bring on folks to, to talk about the different programs when they were gonna expire, how to apply, things like that. Um, you know, and, and what constitutes something that is career focused . Um, we take a very broad view of that. So, I mean, we have folks who come on and talk about , um, you know, armed services, arts partnerships, so taking classes on storytelling or comedy or improv and , and you may say, well , how does that improve the career? So a lot of it has to do with building confidence in public speaking , uh, and, and interviews as well, as well as being a little funny, you know, that, that's a good thing too. Um, <laugh>, so they've, you know, they, the, the program as a whole, I say, has, has been very successful. We continue to, to do it. Um, but as you mentioned, and, and you know, the report that came out last year said like 94% of people with disabilities that is beyond the unemployed phase, that is folks who have just left the workforce. They, they aren't trying anymore and for a number of reasons, but they still are looking at self-employment. And that that could be just them turning their hobby into something that generates some income, or it could be something where they're starting a business and they're hiring employees or, or whatever. Um, being able to do that virtually , uh, ha has a significant positive impact, especially on people with disabilities. Um, the whole point of our program, especially the pilot program, was to get feedback like, you know, were the classes too long? You know , um, was the material presented in in the appropriate manner ? Do , did we have resources specifically for people with disabilities? Things like that. Um, and it's, it's so nice to be able to have a forum where we can just say, Hey, you know, we've just noticed that , uh, financial literacy is a topic that a lot of folks do not know about, but they're interested in. Let's do a session on it. Um, so yeah, it's , the program overall has been very successful . Um, and especially for the, on the self-employment side has been incredibly useful.
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:I've got folks that have just said over and over, I never would've thought of that, or I never would've heard of that, you know, unusual training program or , um, been able to speak to that expert and ask them a direct question. So I think people really appreciate that.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah, absolutely. 90 sessions in a year is no small feat, especially to have them be, be that engaging and dynamic and get that great response. So , um, as someone on the content planning side, I'm in awe and maybe going to email you for some tips , uh, after, after we get off this conversation, but , uh, we have a lot of CRCs who have clients who are, who are veterans with, with a disability , um, some depending on their work setting, may not have encountered a lot of of veterans , um, who have, you know, served in the military and are now , um, navigating a disability. What takeaways do you think when it comes to working specifically with , with veterans with disabilities might help other CRCs when it comes to, you know, different things that you're encountering as your team is, is, is working with all these sorts of different people across the country, and are, are there special considerations or approaches that, that tend to help , um, best serve , um, a veteran who's seeking out these services?
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:I really feel that the culture shift , uh, well, two things. The culture shift from, you know, military to civilian is tremendous. It's like if you grew up in Kansas and then you were dropped off in Mars and said, Hey, get to know these folks, good luck. Um, the veterans I speak with are like, it's just such a different environment in terms of how people communicate , um, the expectations of performance , um, you know, things that are valued. So it , it's a real big shift in communities when they come to civilian sector positions . They , a lot of what I hear is they don't feel understood in terms of their value and what they've done , um, in terms of leadership and responsibilities , um, in the military. Um, the other thing is the fact that it's an typically acquired disabilities , so not something that they were born with , um, and have, you know, grown up with, like some of us may work with people with developmental disabilities or , and other conditions. Um, so that has not only a physical impact on their abilities, but a huge emotional , um, trauma to have that, you know, acquired disability from , um, an event such as, you know, an IED or even if they weren't in combat, they may have experienced some other type of trauma or had an accident and training things like that. So it would be a new and acquired , um, condition. So definitely the culture shift, understanding their, their value and their experience, and then the impact of that sudden acquired disability.
Speaker 3:Yeah, kinda , uh, along the same lines of that , especially, you know, we, we talked about the, the creative thinking and, and the process of doing all that , um, might not be something veterans were taught, right? Uh, it it's very much, here's the process, here's the procedure, boom, boom, boom, let you know, let's do it. Um, and so helping ease them into more creative thinking about their employment opportunities and, and their careers , um, a a certain think is , is something to , to be aware of. I, I think as well, and , and only because we work so much wi with the veteran community, is not necessarily reinventing the wheel, but being aware of the other resources that are available, right? So , um, a veteran who has faced like long-term unemployment may have other things going on. There may be mental health , um, T-B-I-P-T-S-D, things going on with that. Um, and you know, obviously if you're not a mental health counselor , um, you know, want to get them to the right program, and sometimes, you know, we're very proud, we don't want to admit that we have these, these issues. There may be substance abuse, there may be homelessness, all , all of these other things. And so I think being aware of the other resources that are available , um, not just through the va but just through the community that, that you work within, I , I think that is incredibly important for the CRCs to be successful in their, in their work. If I could add one more, one more Yeah . Please on , on this particular topic is , um, for the CRCs is themselves, make sure that they're taking time for self-care. Um, you know, ev even though I , I don't wanna say only, but you know, you're, you're working on the career side of things, you do get a lot of the personal , uh, that comes into the counseling sessions and everything, and , and we absorb that and that impacts us. And, and being able to say, you know, Hey, so I just had a very difficult counseling session. Um, I need to take some time to myself , um, so that my mental and physical health is, is taken care of. I, I think that's really , uh, I, I think that's important to be aware of and making sure that that's the environment that, that the counselors are working in too .
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah. That , that's great to add. And, you know, it's not like , um, from nine to five, let's say, if you have a couple of really difficult sessions that at five o'clock you can always say, all right , no more responsibilities, no more being an adult for the day, right? You have a whole nother world in life to go take care of as a working person. And , uh, yeah, we try to encourage our CRCs all the time to not only take care of themselves, but also speak to one another about what you're experiencing. Maybe not necessarily like, you know, the , the , the stories with clients in , in detail, but, you know, you're not the only one who's, who's feeling overwhelmed by the, the amount that you're taking on in, in this role. And while it's great that you're equipped to do it, and that you are knowledgeable and skilled, it still can be a very heavy experience and a heavy weight to weight to hold , um, particularly if you feel like you're kind of burying it alone. So , um, yeah, we definitely encourage folks to, to take time to, you know, not only practice self-care, but also self-compassion, that just because this is the profession that you've been called to go do doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel a little burnt out and a little , um, like you're in need of a break and a breather. Um, and , and that might not be something that just an hour of watching your favorite TV show, and then it all goes away, right? Like, it, it , these things can stick with you and it's important to , um, involve people in those kind of feelings that you're having and, and not face that stuff alone. Folks who listen to the podcast will know that this is how we tend to end these conversations. 'cause I'm always really fascinated by the folks who we speak with and how a lot of this work ends up cooking with people because they feel like they've been, you know, called to serve individuals with disabilities, whether they knew that that was the path that they were heading in or not. So I'm curious for both of you , um, in the work that you do with Paralyzed Veterans of America, what brings you joy in, in the role that you're in and the work that you do on a day-to-day basis?
Genia Hachenberg, PVA:Oh gosh. Big question. Well, I can say throughout my whole career, everybody, including my children, my family, 'cause I did not grow up around persons with disabilities in any significant way, which I hear a lot of people in this business have. Um, I was really drawn to all these different definitions of success and the very deliberate and, and way that, you know, people can get there. And the more I got exposed to persons with disabilities, everybody kept saying , oh, isn't it depressing you're working with somebody who's quadriplegic or a schizophrenia? And it's so sad. And I realized that my temperament and my outlook on life was completely the opposite in that I found it so exciting to see what we can do, what we can succeed in, and what we can accomplish. Um, whether that's, you know, being able to feed yourself or becoming an engineer for a Fortune 500 company, it looking ahead and, and not having limitations and, and defining that success for each person , um, I just found very invigorating and exciting , um, and meaningful. So the glass half full, I guess <laugh>, it keeps, keeps me going, keeps me optimistic to see the changes that can be made.
Speaker 3:I would say from my perspective, a lot of it comes from my background. Um, having, having been a veteran or being a veteran, actually having been active duty and doing that transition , um, and having the good fortune to have had a number of experiences, even though I didn't think about it at the time, that that's what I was doing. But , you know, working for a big business, working for a small business, starting my own business , um, the fear of being unemployed or having been unemployed , um, you know, going back to school , um, do doing a , a , a number of other things and, and then just being able to , um, take classes on comedy and storytelling. You know, I've not anything I ever would've thought about , um, you know, been on stages with, with, you know, tens of thousands of people in , in the , uh, audience or thousands of people in the audiences, you know? Um, and being able to share those experiences and say, Hey, this is what's available. This is what is out there. And , and as Gina mentioned, you know, kind of the military mantra of not leaving people behind. And so being able to do that work where you're , where you're saying, Hey, I'm, I'm here, you know, if you need me, I'm here. Uh, and maybe even when you don't need me, I'm gonna be there, type, type of thing to , to me that's my, my motivation and I absolutely love. And, and , um, you know, every month we do a success story and , and being able to see those success stories. 'cause I think they are so much more important than just the sheer numbers. You know, the numbers are there and I , I , it's never been one of those things where I've had to worry about quotas or anything like that. 'cause you know, I understand having been a small business counselor, you could meet somebody today who you can place in two weeks, or it could be you meet somebody today and it takes two years, right? And so being , uh, having that flexibility to, to do that is, is important. But I've never had to worry about the numbers. The numbers always work out anyway. But when I address, you know, companies or conventions or up on Capitol Hill, the things that resonate the most are those individual stories that say, you know, here's somebody who had , you know, is a veteran with or without a disability. Um, but typically with a disability who got into this program who now is employed and bought their , uh, first house, you know, and , and in the course of like six months, you know , type of thing. And so, tho that's the thing that motivates me. Um, 'cause I think that's the thing that, again, provides the hope to, to other folks to say, yeah, I, you know, I , I should reach out, I should get assistance, and , and I can do this.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Thanks again to Charles McCaffrey and Gina Hackenberg for their time and insight during this episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. You can find a link to the Veteran's Career Program website in today's show notes you heard from Charles as well about the importance of client stories. So you'll also find the link in the show notes to our open call for stories from both CRCs and clients served by CRCs to aid in our efforts to raise awareness of the profession and advocate on behalf of CRCs to employers, lawmakers, and the general public. If you have any takeaways or insights on topics covered in this episode, email us at contact us@crccertification.com. Be sure to subscribe to this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find us on Facebook and LinkedIn at CRC Cert , and our website is crc certification.com. Until next time, I'm Director of Communications and Marketing, Taylor Bauer. And for CRCC, thank you for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling.