Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Starting a Private Practice as a CRC with Joseph Young, CRC, MS, LRC
Joseph Young is a Certified Rehabilitation Counselor, an LRC in Massachusetts, and owner of JOSEPH YOUNG CONSULTING, L.L.C.
In this conversation, Joe shares his perspective on the importance of credentials, his journey with an invisible disability, and how CRCs who want to start their own private practice can begin their journey to working for themselves.
Link to Joseph's Business Website: https://josephyoungconsulting.com/
CRCC Job Board: https://crccertification.com/joblisting/current-job-postings/
If you are interested in submitting a position to the CRCC Job Board, please click here.
It is been a while since we've explored private practice opportunities on the show. Many episodes of inside rehabilitation counseling begin with a conversation at CRCC. We may be working with an educator or practitioner on a project and think, Hey, we might want to discuss some of these topics on the podcast. For this episode, the conversation with our guest began with a job listing. The CRCC job board hosts positions from all over the country. And today's guest reached out to list a position with his private practice. We talked a bit about his consulting business, and from there I knew our audience would want to hear about his story. Joe Young is a certified rehabilitation counselor in LRC in Massachusetts, and owner of Joseph Young Consulting LLC. In this conversation, Joe shares his perspective on the importance of credentials and how CRCs who want to start their own private practice, can begin their journey to working for themselves. I wanna start where we start with a lot of these conversations and just kind of get to know where you first learned about rehabilitation counseling. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey to where you , um, are today in the profession and kind of how you got there?
Speaker 2:Sure. And my pleasure to, to, you know, be here and thanks for the opportunity. So, certainly, so I started in the profession later in life, really. Um, I, I always would joke that I'm was the old saying , um, jack of all trades , master of none. So like I, I kind of was in and out of a lot of different areas of work when I, through my twenties and thirties. And , um, you know, I had got my bachelor's degree from Northeastern and, you know, I looked into, I think human service work was something that I always felt drawn to, even though for a while I did, you know, I did some other things that were more dealing with things, not people. But anyhow, when I was doing some training work with , um, employees at my job in financial services, and this was probably when I was in my mid to late thirties, I started , uh, volunteering through a community action program. And what happened is I basically went to a homeless shelter, or veteran shelter in Boston, and I volunteered, and I basically got a team together of , of coworkers and went over there and we did like the serve food. Um, and, you know, we spoke with veterans and I noticed that a lot of the folks I went over there with, I think because of various background differences, a lot of 'em were like business majors. And I'm not saying they weren't , um, social, but I believe that I was the one out of, I was probably the only one out of the whole group that really was like interacting with the veterans. And I think just because of maybe the background I came from, I do have a family history of in the military, but it's more than that. It's just the fact that I think that I could kind of empathize with a lot of them because I had my own disabilities, you know , um, you know what , that I found out I was experiencing in , you know, my thirties. So anyway, I did, because of that experience at the shelter, I started getting more involved. Um, I did training at my own employers with people on site , but I also started volunteering more and more over at the shelter on my own time. And that kind of led me to do some research into college programs because I had an undergraduate degree back in the late nineties. And, you know, here I am, you know, it was 2000, late 2010 to 12 or 13, something like that. So I'm like, I need , I was, where I was at, I felt like I needed to expand. Like, I felt like my career was kind of stagnant. Um, and I was , wasn't really fit out. Um, I really wasn't ha my skillset wasn't fit to where I was at. I always liken it to like be in a square peg, trying to fit into a circle, you know. Um, so I , I basically research found somebody at UMass Boston , um, in reality, which I found out later, it was one of the better programs in, in the country for rehabilitation counseling. And I, I actually found a contact over there that was, I would say was kind of a mentor to me. I'll mention his name, bill Carlow . He's, he ran like a substance abuse program over there. And, but he also had a master's degree. And he had told me about the CRC credential. 'cause I wanted to kind of tie in working with people with disabilities and , um, vocational because I was someone that was doing that, you know, also managing some, some invisible disabilities myself. So I think that all wrapped into one. And I kind of, I just ended up enrolling at UMass. I found out they had the , um, the RSA grant, which allowed , uh, folks to go there and get their grad graduate degree , um, basically free of charge as long as you were working in the field afterwards. And , um, from there, I just kind of, I was going to school part-time, hybrid whatever I had to do. Um, and then my last year I ended up leaving my, my older employer and just focused on my graduate studies. And , um, I did internships and I kind of was off, off and running from there. That's
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Thank you for walking us through that. I think you definitely hear often that people who end up in this profession are interested in helping people. And even in particular, like you mentioned, they don't only want to help people, but they, they have a knack for connecting with people. And it sounds like that experience with the veterans really kind of hold some pieces together for you and realize that this would be a profession that you would not only enjoy, but it it'd sell in. And that's certainly the case. Now. You are currently running your own business , um, as a CRC and , uh, an LRC in the state of Massachusetts. Walk me through what led to you starting your own business. We hear a lot of times that people who are in this profession want to do that. Um, and I'm just curious, what tools or resources were helpful to you through the planning and launching process of your business? And , um, when did you know you wanted to take that path , uh, within rehabilitation counseling? Sure.
Speaker 2:So as you said , um, you know, when you, it's everything's about experience in life , um, and running into , um, situations that you're haven't been familiar with before, and whether by chance or , um, networking or whatnot. So when I finished my degree, I was networking with , um, my focus was at the time, like my internship I did at the Middlesex Sheriff's Department , um, as a job developer. And it was something I kind of created on my own. It wasn't some , most folks at UMass would go to mass rehab, which is now mass ability . Um, and, and they were, I ended up working with them indirectly over the next couple years. But my internship was more working with individuals that were incarcerated or in pro the court system. So I was kind of just a , a , something that I was drawn to because I did have a background in prior and corrections and law enforcement. So , um, when I got into that, you know, I, I just started seeing, working with these individuals and thinking there's a lot of , um, like grant opportunities and things of that nature. They're out there that I came aware of from people that I was working with, whether they were a nonprofit or whatnot. And so I did some research and I found a posting for , um, at the time for, well, I was working at the time for the state and as a well , uh, counselor for the department, department mental health. And I found out about this , uh, contract position where you could do social security expert witness testimony. And I did contract work with that. I interviewed and, and got the job. And it was a contract role. And I liked it because I did do some in person , but I also could do it at home. And just looking into that, doing research, I realized that , um, you know, there was a contract coming up and I , and I read into it about what I needed to kind of apply. And I looked at the requirements and I felt like I, I met the requirements. Um, saw that experience there, kind of led me to getting into the government contracting. And from there I just researched about, well, I'm gonna do this on my own, then I should research about running business. 'cause I'm not, you know, like a lot of folks that start , um, they're not really , um, folks with like an MBA or business minded, but I think that, so your , your skillset has to come first in , in the job that you're doing and then you're running your business. Um, is, is important, but it's, you need that first initial , uh, opportunity in the field. So again, like if you're, if you're running your own business in anything, even folks, I went to school with folks that were mental health counselors. You know, they didn't just start their own practice, you know, without having done research and found others that started it , um, after getting experience in the field. So I think it's a combination. My l my age, 'cause I did start later on in life, this career as a CRC. So I had a lot of life and job experience. Um, and just being exposed to that contract work was kind of like my, my , um, gave me a , um, springboard, so to speak, to start. And then the rest of the stuff I think you can do, especially nowadays with AI and, and the internet, you can really find out ways to start your own business and kind of manage that. Um, but you know, it , it , it's always helpful to have ex network with folks that have already done it ahead of you before you and I, I definitely did use that , um, you know, to my advantage by, through the networks I made, through grad school, my internship as well as , um, folks in the VE world because , um, there is , uh, professional networks you can join and you can network with folks. So , um, but yeah, it was, it was, that was kind of what led me to that. And again, I think that everybody nowadays too has that entrepreneurial spirit and it's even being pushed in schools now where they're recognizing training that in classes. And I think that I, that came around the time that, you know, I ex , you know, I experienced this , um, self-employment. So, but that's, that's really where I, I kind of had that opportunity is with that contract work. And it just expanded from there. And I did add some other services as well as I kind of went along, but that was my, I needed that anchor because when you start a business, you need to have that client that keeps the lights on, so to speak. So that was kind of for me, otherwise I couldn't have gone out just on my own. And if I had just like a la carte freelance work, I still would've had to work for, at the time I was working for the federal government as a va, a VA counselor, and when I got my contract, it allowed me to kind of go on my own. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, we , uh, obviously have a lot of courses at C-R-C-C-E University and every , uh, month when I'm looking at sales reports and trying to figure out like what courses do we want to keep reminding people that we offer, one of the top selling ones is always how to start a private practice, you know? Um , I think, like you said, the entrepreneurial spirit is, has , has always been strong with people, but especially now, you even see a lot of folks who, as you just mentioned, maybe work full-time somewhere and are just starting to maybe dabble a little bit in some contract work or freelance work , um, obviously for the money, but also like in your, in your case, the exposure to that world. So you can kind of dip your toe in without just maybe one day saying, I'm gonna quit my job at state VR and head in, you know, head first . And getting, getting exposure to that is really important because we have a lot of people who are working in private practice and , and many of them, you know, might be CRCs who haven't had exposure to a , a contract position like you had. What would you say to someone who wants to go into private practice? Were , were there any like, lessons or kind of takeaways when you started out that you think might be helpful for them to, to know or hear about?
Speaker 2:Sure. And you touched base on this a little bit. Um, number one is you, you certainly, you don't want to go into private practice , um, at least full-time without having , um, a steady , um, clientele or income. Um, whether you have a governmental contract work or you , um, you know, you have something else where you can say, okay, you know, I can leave. Because it's one thing you realize when you start a business is , you know, it's, it's , I like the pros over the cons, but the one thing you have to adapt to that, folks that are, especially people that work in human services, they usually work for the government , um, or a nonprofit . They, you know, they'll lose benefits. So that's one thing you always have to factor in. So your situation may depend on that, you know, if you're married or you're single, and, you know, it may be more feasible for some than others, but you need to have that secure because of the contract at work I did for about a year, I did while I was also working full time . So like you said, you just, I just , just up and I didn't up and leave until I was able to secure something. Um, but I would say the biggest thing is just get experience. Because even folks that I bring on , um, for contract work now, they have to have at least five years experience of direct placement. Now that doesn't, you know, that means like you, it doesn't mean like you could have worked in human services as , you know, doing mental health or doing intakes or whatever. It has to be really direct specified experience. So one thing I've noticed, folks coming to me looking to fill up positions I've sought , um, is that a lot of times they're, I can't bring them on because they just don't have that experience. And I think the experience is important because not just for knowing your craft, but it's also, it helps you empathize with the people that you are working with. Um, but the other piece is the credentials. I always say you need academic too, like people that to advance and to get recognition and for your resume, you need to have those credentials. Um, I've also turned folks down that have worked in VR work for decades, but they never really went out of the way to get , um, A CRC certification or an A BVE or, or , um, A CVE, whatever, you know, whatever. Like, I know some friends of mine used to joke about having all those , um, those letters after your name. But you know, in some ways it does. Um, it is necessary. I mean, it , it's something that you do learn from these organizations. You learn from going to school. But , um, so you need to have that combination. I always say that, so if you're, if you're heavy in one area and light in the other, then always try to make up where your light, 'cause you'll always focus on your weaknesses. Um, and I think that's something I've learned over the time. And I also would say that, you know, the , the next thing, and this is pretty much I think, common sense, especially as you get older , um, networking is, is huge. Um, I mean, I've networked with CRC for example, and you guys posted , um, you know, some things on, on the website. I actually hired somebody from that posting and I've had a bunch of other folks, you know, come to me. Um, and it's been, you know, a very, a good opportunity. And I think, 'cause I , I do have kept in touch with, you know , um, CRC monitoring them, I'm I on LinkedIn. And so the networking piece is huge. Um, just try to network, whether it's doing kind of , uh, when I say cold call, I mean reaching out via email or, or internet, going on LinkedIn, doing networking , um, just getting that out there depending on what you're interested in. You know, if you're doing long term short term disability, workers' comp, private , um, insurance, you know, you have to be able to find, you know , ways to get your name out there to be known. And I think everybody knows that in , in vocational world, everybody knows that word of mouth is the most , uh, prevalent way people end up getting a job. It still exists today. Um, I think it's just, it's just a way of the world still, even though with, you know, and it's gotta be based on merit, but a lot of times you can have 10 applicants that are all equal, but the one that kind of has familiarity from somebody, you know, that's why companies offer references. So that's, you know, those are the two things is getting your experience and your credentials as well as a network and really push that networking. And I think that kind of will help you , um, move forward in your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no , those are both great pointers and you know, with networking, there's kind of an art to it. 'cause it's not always a matter of you have worked for me, it's more just like getting to know people who are in the profession. 'cause you never know weeks, months, years down the line when that might end up being a , a , a potential avenue for you to explore for a new career, a new position in your case, potentially hiring someone, someone onto to your consulting business. And , um, it's great to hear that the job board , uh, worked out well for you. We, it's one of our most visited pages and I know many of the roles are in person , so they might not all pertain to everybody looking on there. But we have listings as the per , I can say this as a , um, as the person at CRC who updates that we have listings come in every single day , uh, whether it be state, v state vr , um, remote opportunities, things like that. And while there might not be something in your state one day by the next week, there, there are certainly other opportunities. And , um, there are also a , a number of remote opportunities and hybrid things like that, that are opening doors for people to not just be limited to where they live as well. But , um, you made a a really great point as well with the credentials because we hear often that, you know, for , uh, for many practice settings, the CRC credential might not be required as a, you have to have this. But we do hear from people all the time that that ends up kind of being the difference makers . Have you invested that not only getting the master's degree, but passing the exam, which is a , a rigorous exam and takes a lot of work, and then maintaining that and getting those continuing education credits and that , that , that shows a commitment to the work that you do that , um, even if not necessarily required in a job description , um, does show the hiring manager something. And we are even hearing now for people who are applying to jobs within accommodations or return to work where maybe they're not even aware of the CRC credential, they just need someone to do those services that when they see the CRC, those letters do catch your eye. 'cause you're like, okay, well what does that stand for? Then you look into it a bit more and maybe in an interview you're able to articulate what skills you bring to the table based on your education and that credential. And it , it , it does go a long way. So it, it's great to hear that that's something that you've seen make a difference as well in your business and, and career. Speaking of, you know, remote positions and things like that , um, rehabilitation counseling services have begun to offer remote and blended services and , um, as you mentioned in your line of work, there is a lot of work that can happen remotely or not in the same location, a as the people you're working alongside. What benefits have you experienced to things related to virtual case management or rehabilitation counseling services? And what considerations need to be taken when you're providing these services virtually?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. So, and it's true, I mean, not just with covid , I think Covid kind of opened up people's eyes where a lot of proficiency can be performed from homes. You know, with technology nowadays , um, you know, a lot of times that is beneficial and in , in , in fact, before Covid, when I worked at the va, one of the biggest , um, barriers for a lot of veterans coming in to apply for benefits , uh, I worked in Boston at the time, was to getting there. Um, it was so frustrating for 'em to get there and then find parking or get transportation and, you know, the , the clientele you're dealing with, a lot of folks that aren't, you know, they have a lot of issues with , um, you know, psychological, cognitive , um, physical issues. So I started getting, and I started kind of pushing for this, but a lot of the folks there brought this to me where they were like, well, let's have you do a lot of these phone on phone in intakes. Um, so that was something that was moving, they were moving towards that even before covid . And then, I don't know if they're doing it still now, I think maybe some hybrid, but , um, a lot of folks may be going back to brick and mortar, but I think a lot of folks are still allowing hybrid work , um, if not full remote work. And I think the benefit of that is easy. It's easier on the clients and that , uh, the transportation issues , um, with technology nowadays, in my experience , um, every, even my clients that are, you know, folks I've dealt with that were homeless and or were in shelters, I mean, everybody seems to have a smartphone and everybody seems to know how to use apps and , um, it's not like it was years ago. We like, well, nobody has this or that. I mean, most of my clients that are , um, that I work with that are through say, the ticket to work program or workers' comp have proficiency in email. Um, and it's, you know, it's very simple. Um, now the, the challenges with that is , um, obviously the, the personal connection , um, for the social security work I do, it's not , um, as an issue because we're supposed to be objective. We're not really working with folks as a client. We're just offering our expertise opinion. Um, it's, it's less , uh, it's, it's informal, but it's not really, we're not focusing on the individual. We're just focusing on hypotheticals and the world of work. So I think the, the phone hearings we do are , um, you know, it's beneficial. They offer that more now in social security , um, for , um, disability hearings, phone as well as video, you know , the MS team video still allows folks with physical ailments to present themselves physically. So the judge can kind of get a feel of how they're performing or what they're dealing with without having them to actually travel into a location physically. So those are benefits. Um , but obviously the , the negative is that, you know, we do, when you're working with folks as on a one-to-one basis, like traditional VR work, which I still do, ticket to work programming and workers' comp, that is where I try to go out at least once or twice to visit in person , because you need to have that connection and develop that rapport. And then after that, usually it's okay just to do a lot of electronic things , um, communication. So I think there's a balance there that works , um, for folks that , you know, get used to it. I prefer hybrid over anything. Um, maybe like a percentage hybrid. So like if I do workers' comp , um, or ticket to work, it's, it's probably 80 20 or 75, 25, we're remote, 75 to 80 , um, you know, in person maybe 25, 20 to 25%. 'cause you need that. You do need some face to face time . Um, but in terms of other work, and a lot of folks that work private insurance, that can all be done remote other than, you know , unless you have to testify. And that doesn't happen often. So I think that's something that, you know, the hybrid work is, is beneficial. And I think, again, a lot of folks are sticking with that , um, because they realized through covid , one of the positives, I guess, is that , um, they realize that people can be effective and there are a lot of benefits from remote work.
Speaker 1:Y you mentioned obviously accessibility for , um, for, for the client to ensure that they're not having to deal with transportation issues or , um, added hurdles to, to , to this situation. They , they might already be trying to traverse. There's also the matter of the fact that we, we know in a lot of places there aren't enough CRCs to help all of the people who have disabilities who need these services. So the ability to use remote and, and virtual work and , and settings to provide these services is really a way to break down barriers that are related to, you know, a population of , uh, people who live in rural areas that might not be near state vocational services, or at least not, not near enough to make it convenient and to make it a headache to have to figure out. And I think you see that with a lot of , um, the medical profession as well. You know, I, I had read at one point, I, I forget what the article was, but they thought that, again, like you said, one of the positives of of the pandemic was that it sped up the virtualization of, of the medical profession by almost a decade because they realized we can do some of this virtually. Some of it you can't, which is totally understandable. And like you said, the the personal connection in person really can't be, can't be matched. But with some of these services just needing to be check-ins and conversations and , um, even as you mentioned , uh, video being a way to see somebody, a lot of that can happen virtually. And that really breaks down barriers for people who might not live near services and might in turn, because of that decide, I, I can't have those services because they're not near me. And it , it's really trans transformational to know that this can be a way that , uh, CRCs can connect to clients who they might not have easy access to, which is great for the client and great for the counselor as well. And
Speaker 2:I liken it to the , like , you , we can't go back to, it's like, you know, when you <laugh> , I'm an older, so I use these, these , um, I use these squ , um, like, you know, when you invent the car, you don't go back to the, the , the horse, you know, and buggy. You, you, when you go to hybrid or you go to remote and it's effective, you can't go back. Um, or you shouldn't go back just because you're in this mindset of, well, the person has to be responsible and be in , we have to see them. It's like that old mindset. And I think that when you see the effectiveness , um, I think it's important. And, and one thing to mention, I don't have this, but a lot of folks , um, that work in remote work that , um, say like Amazon or things of that nature, I , I know folks that work with , um, you know, dis um , with benefits and things of that nature, accommodation requests , um, you know, they have to re they're monitored, so they have to get production done. So it doesn't make sense to try to punish people by saying, well, you have to be here in the office if you can get it done. Um, and , and because they always say, and it's true, like a happier employee is a , a better employee. So that's just my, my thing too is I think that I, I always push back about that idea that we have to go back to this, you know , in brick and mortar type work because , and I'm 52 and I grew up in the generation that, hey, you should be in work. And I'm myself don't agree with that <laugh>,
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah. And the productivity conversation is also very harmful for individuals with disabilities because there's that assumption by a lot of folks that if you have a disability, you cannot be as productive as someone who doesn't have a disability. When in turn, we know that a lot of times people with disabilities are going to work harder because they want to compensate for the fact that they're being overlooked and , and not just in work, right? But in society and to, to force return to office , uh, things for reasons that aren't anything, but just like a , a psychology of we need you in the office, right ? We need you in a building, right ? It is not only harmful to employees who are enjoying a better work life balance at home, but also to employees with disabilities who all of a sudden now have to figure out things like, how do I get to work? I'm not going to have the same resources. And of course, employers are meant to , uh, provide accommodations and things like that, but those are things that they don't have to worry about right now because they're able to work remotely. And so when you saw a lot of those pushes back to the office happen, I think an unintended consequence was you're alienating a lot of people who do not have , um, the same accessibility requirements in office that they would at home. And Right . It definitely caused ,
Speaker 2:It's
Speaker 1:True . It definitely cause problems. Yeah. So I'm curious, you know, you mentioned as a vendor for, for state workers' comp and, and employment network for the federal Ticket to Work program. You also do expert witness for disability cases. You sort of exist in a lot of significant spaces that private practice CRCs work in. Is there one of those spaces that you think offers the most opportunity? Or is it better for CRCs to kind of pursue a little bit of everything that private practice offers?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I mean, my experience is that, again, when you're given the opportunity to have a contract with the government, and I do have, I have a contract with the state government as well as the federal government. Um, one I work with a lot more than the other. Um, but , um, the idea to me is , um, you know, you have to have, you , you wanna have interest, but I think the key is, number one , um, whether the work is somewhat more interesting than other work. You know, the the initial factor you have to consider is, again, why I mentioned before is, you know, doing the work that kind of keeps the lights on, you gotta make sure that you're doing that work. I mean, if you, if if you get into this business and you're doing work that , um, say you like workers' comp more than doing testimony for ve but one pays regular than the other, you're gonna have, maybe you can try to expand on one that you like more, but you have to consistently do the other to make sure that your , again, your business can operate. Um, so I think it's preference on what you like. I do believe that private practice as far as , um, you know, disability insurance through insurance companies , um, private , um, you know, I know folks have worked in divorce cases doing earnings capacity assessments, working for law firms , um, you know, pay , getting paid for a long-term disability claims where they're, you know , doing interrogatories, depositions, things of that nature. So they're, you know, they're probably making a good, a good, good amount of money off of those. Um, but again, that's kind of getting, you know, into a good connection with a certain , um, you know, law firm or company or even being a regular provider for an insurance company , um, perhaps for workers' comp or whatnot. Um, so those are all, again, goes back to networking. And , um, if you're able to do that, like I've done workers' comp before and I, I, I like that. And that I could , it was more of a personal touch to it. And also the money was, you know, the , the payment was good. You know, you can, your fees generally are higher. 'cause I always like, you know, the elephant in the room is always talking about money, and I have no problem discussing the fact that you can do, you can make good money and also do, you know, do good, give back to the community and do , um, what I call altru altruistic work. So I think that when you're doing the private L-T-D-L-S-T-D , um, type of work and working maybe for a firm, I think you'll probably like it a little . I find that I would like it more , um, because it's a little more interesting , um, but it's also pays more. But as far as doing , um, the work that kind of helps my company operate is usually it's relying and be consistent with the contracts I have. It, it really depends on the person really, because I think that if you are, like, I've done as I've diversified, but most of my time recently has been spent on running my company and doing testimony, but also running contractors that do a lot of PE testimony for me and training them. So there's only so much t you know, time in the day. So I do try to , I do have some ticket to work clients and I've done workers' comp , um, last year. I haven't done any this year so far, but I try to do them if I can more. Um, but it really just kind of depends on what comes my way. Um, I am trying to develop, I always tell folks that they, you know, continue to network, develop your website, your marketing plan. Um, that's something that I'm still, it's an always , uh, evolving type of situation. Um, but I do feel like that , um, it just depends on the individual and the opportunities that come your way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's great. And I think like, like you've kind of explained, being open-minded to pay the bills first, right? That's important, especially with all the considerations of running a business and those expenses. But then, yeah, find, find what ends up working for your situation and explore that. And , um, we hear a lot of folks who say private practice resonates with them in some pretty strong ways compared to other work settings, maybe they began in. And I think , uh, just a little bit more of that flexibility to try different things and um, and , and be in different spaces can certainly , um, contribute to that as well as the earning potential. Um, we know from our salary survey we conducted in 2021 at CRCC that , um, the , the highest earners with the CRC credential are in private practice. And , uh, you know, between the contracts and the ability to kind of get out there and make connections with people, there's definitely potential there. So , um, I appreciate your, your , uh, sure . Insight into that. We know in private practice , uh, that having the CRC credential is essential, particularly because of that CRCC code of professional efforts , um, that provides the public protection and a a among a num a number of other things. Um, what other elements of certification do you value as a CRC in addition to being an LRC?
Speaker 2:Well, I think , um, the number one thing for me is that, you know , you're , you're going through school and you're, you're taking the time outta your life. I mean , especially I had kids when I went back to school, so I, you know, I , I learned about a new career, a new profession, and it kind of gave me that it's, it's similar to going to school and getting your graduate degree. Now I got my graduate degree from a rehab counselor, but it wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have mattered to me as much if I didn't get the CRC credential. Um, because I think it's just like, you know, it might be a cherry on top, so to speak, but it's something that, it basically says, Hey, you're qualified , um, to work with folks with disabilities in the world of work because you , um, you went through this rigorous program and, you know , it qualifies you. It's not, you know, so it means something in that you, you had to go through that. Anybody who's gone through graduate school and who's done practicum and internship , um, especially in my situation and when I went to to grad school, a lot of the folks there were like me, they were working full time . They had families. So I think that that was a big sacrifice. And then when they achieved that, I think to get that credential , um, which, you know, anybody who's taken the CRC exam knows it's not, it's not easy. So you do have to prepare for it. So I think a lot of that just really for anything for self fulfillment, I think is, is important. Um, I, I do think there's a, there's somewhat of a comradery there. The work I do, you have to be a CRC to , um, work for social security. Um, and I, again, I brought up before a lot of folks that worked in vr, but they weren't A CRC. And I feel like that , um, they did themselves a disservice by not doing that. And I also believe that you're gonna better serve your clientele with that credential because it basically makes you, you know, go through the schooling and the education. 'cause there's so many different aspects. You know, there's the medical vocational piece , um, of disability. Uh , I mean, I felt like, you know, I don't wanna say I'm fortunate, but I, I went through an individual , um, situation with invisible disability, and I know a lot of folks might have that face that as well. Like, it seems like you're drawn to a fee , the helping field, because you've dealt with situations, but not everybody has. So I think that going through the schooling will help you kind of get , um, the experience and the training to merely , um, understand why you're doing this. So I think that it's a combination of things. I mean, the ethical piece is important because I think that, I mean, I have insurance as a counselor, and I think that it makes you realize when you, like you take an ethics course in to get your CRC and, and they're always pushing with continued education credits, like, you know, keep up on your ethical practices. And I think that's important. So I think that , um, but self-fulfilment fulfillment, if anything , uh, I feel like achieving that, but it does give me an idea that I may have experienced in the field, but I've, I've gone that extra mile to, you know, to learn about specific , uh, techniques and , um, things of that nature to help me work with folks , um, individually. And it does, as you mentioned too, it does give you , um, not just in, in the work I do for social security, where you have to have A CRC, but it gives you some validity when you're working with folks. And I think that's something that's been going on in my state. A lot of the VR um, programs have kind of rolled back their requirements. So in some ways it's, and I think this is something that's been brought up in, you know, on the CRC conversations and , um, with other folks that are CRCs in the community, so to speak, and IARP and things of that nature where the credentials aren't being valued like they should. So, and I think that's doing a disservice because now you are bringing people on that don't have that credential. And when someone's working with somebody , um, on, you know , disability issues and the situation comes around like , well, how did you, you know, get into this work? What are your credentials? And somebody's like, well, I have, you know, I have an associate's degree in, you know , um, you know, chemistry or , uh, English, whatever, I'm just being facetious. But, you know, you don't have that background. And I think that whether it's because the, they don't have enough qualified candidates or the need is more, I'm not sure why, but I think that that's something they've gone away from in my state. And I think that's, it just shows you how crucial having that is. Because I know folks that now are working in the field that don't have that credential, and I know that they're not as qualified. And when I run in across, when I run across to someone who has a CRC, you can tell based on their experience that they're able to connect with me in , in the field, and they kind of, they'll be able to address certain issues that someone that didn't have that credential would know, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As we've seen a few states start to trend away from certification and more skills-based hiring , um, we know that skills-based hiring is, is something that a lot of different industries are. It's exploring now. And I think the concern for us at CRCC and also just , uh, for CRCs themselves like you, is that when you move that direction, you're not suddenly finding people who are more qualified. You're opening up to other folks who might not be as especially equipped to do this work as somebody who has a master's degree and pass that exam and keeps up with their continuing education. So while that trend does appear to be happening, as we know already in Massachusetts and a few other states , um, it's something we're actively working to advocate , um, against because, you know, we want to see people with disabilities have the expert services that they deserve, right ? And , um, and, and we believe that to be CRCs who have put the time and, and knowledge and training into working specifically with people with disabilities , um, physical, cognitive, mental , uh, to be able to achieve those fully integrated lives they deserve. And when you're providing them services from someone who is not equipped to navigate all of these different systems and laws and , uh, assessments and practices, the you are automatically from the jump putting them at a disservice , uh, to what they could be having with CRCs. So whether it's expanding the amount of people who are pursuing a master's degree in getting that credential, or , um, encouraging state vocational rehabilitation agencies and other employers to continue to seek out CRCs and , um, hire CRCs, that's, that's work that , uh, we plan on doing. We've heard many describe becoming a certified rehabilitation counselor as a toing . Um, what brings you joy in the work that you do as a CRC?
Speaker 2:And this may, this may go against what the reason why I initially started being A CRC, now , the initially started CRC, because I, I did wanna work with folks that had disabilities. And I, I feel like that I wanted to share my experience because again, I did , um, you can't not get into this field without it being somewhat personal. Um, so I believe that when I got in, I wanted to help folks that were struggling , um, to some degree , um, such as I was , um, and my, my takeaway is that if I could , um, and not to put myself on a pedestal, 'cause there's a lot of folks that do this and, and people stumble and fall all the time and pick themselves back up. And that was me for a long time. And I feel like that I see a lot of folks out there with potential and they're going through a lot of different situations and, you know, it's, it's easy to kind of just throw your hands up in the air and be like, I'm just, you know, I'm not gonna get anywhere. So for me, I know that , um, the fact that I dealt with disabilities myself, and I've been able to, what I always call a functional , um, disabled worker, and that was somebody that worked with a disability , um, was able to function, but I wasn't really achieving like I should have because I wasn't addressing my disabilities, I wasn't getting the support that I needed to work around that to be a better employee, to be a better person. Um, so I, I felt like that was something that when I finally kind of clicked at some point for me, and I , when I went into the CRC calling, I, so to speak, the , um, when I had that experience with the veterans, I felt like that kind of opened my eyes to wanting to work with folks. And that had maybe a similar path that I did, and they just, they, they needed to have that kind of awakening for themselves. So I think that's always been at the heart of doing the work I do. Um, the reason why , um, I've gone into the Tick to Work program , um, specifically is because I wanted to be, you know, have that connection with folks that were going through these problems. 'cause it's not really lucrative money there. And, you know, like, you know , workers' comp and , and certainly working with private insurers , um, that is more lucrative, but it's, it's more , um, assessments and more technical side. Whereas the Ticket to Work program is really just working with folks. Um, you're kind of going off of their, you know, their , um, momentum, you're helping them along the way, but you're, you're not staring , you're letting them kind of do what they wanna do, but you're there as a support. So that's kind of why I like doing that , um, and continue to do that. But I'll be honest, like in running my own business, I like, I like the camaraderie I have with my contractors in that I like having to be able to bounce ideas off other people that are CRCs. And a lot of the folks that work with me are , um, either semi-retired or retired. They were former directors or VR in different states. They come from all over the country. Um, and they just open your eyes to a lot of different experiences. And I think that's something I really like about being in business by myself and, and doing the networking I do. Um, that's why I always encourage people to join , um, you know, going on CRC, getting going on Linked, you know, getting in IARP or A BVE joining these professional networks , um, I, my small business association member in my local area, but just kind of getting to know folks that do the work you do, and it's kind of like that peer support thing, right? Where you're , um, you're dealing with a lot of these folks and you're helping them, but you need to have your own , um, what they call, and they mention this in school all the time about your, you know , your own mental health break. Um, and I think that's something that when you work with similar minded colleagues and you can kind of bounce those ideas off each other, it's like your own support network. So I think that's the good thing, or the thing I enjoy about working on my own, because I think that when I did work for the state and the government, you had coworkers , but your focus was on clients only, and you kind of get caught up in that rat race, so to speak, where like you , you know, if you weren't meeting certain expectations at that employer, you know, nobody cared whether you were dealing with something or not. You know, the ironic thing is working as a vocational counselor in those fields, you didn't get really the empathy that the clients you worked with got, which was kind of ironic to me. And I think that that's another reason to go back to my , um, impetus for starting my own business, is I wanted to be able to kind of, you know, get away from that. Um, you know, that that kind of , um, bureaucratic, bureaucratic mindset where your employees had just come in, punch the clock, do your job and leave. Um, I felt like that was something where a lot of the folks I worked with, you know, didn't get that , um, same compassion from their employer, even though , um, a lot of the folks I work with as counselors, you know, they, they had had their own experiences. So , um, and maybe employers didn't feel like that was their, you know, their , um, responsibility. But I think that's another thing is that I'm always open to my coworkers who are more contractors, but I'm always available to talk about whatever they want to talk about. And I think that's , um, that's a big piece of working for myself that I enjoy.
Speaker 1:Thank you to Joe Young for that informational and engaging conversation. In the show notes, you can find links to Joe's Business, Joseph Young Consulting LLC, as well as information about the CRCC job board where we list positions from all across the country for both in person and remote positions. If you have any takeaways or insights on topics covered in today's episode, email us at contact us@crccertification.com. Be sure to subscribe to this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find us on Facebook and LinkedIn at CRC Cert , and our website is crc certification.com. Until next time, I'm Taylor Bauer. Thank you for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling.