Educating and Empowering Veterans with Julianne Hansen, M.S., CRC

During the week this episode is releasing, we observe Veterans Day, and as we all know, military service and the veteran community are the bedrock of how rehabilitation counseling came to be. Many Certified Rehabilitation Counselors themselves are veterans or have close ties to the veteran community, including those who directly work with individuals to find employment and navigate their return to civilian life. Julianne Hansen is the Founder and CEO of Team Hansen Education and Empowerment. Much of Julianne’s work has focused on showing the veteran community that they are supported. As a CRC with a disability and spouse to a permanently disabled veteran, Julianne has a unique perspective on the support necessary to help this population thrive, and it begins with meeting each person where they are. 

Transcript

Taylor Bauer: 0:04

Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC Director of Communications and Marketing Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited to bring you another conversation exploring the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. During the week this episode is releasing, we observe Veterans Day. And as we all know, military service and the veteran community are the bedrock of how rehabilitation counseling came to be. Many certified rehabilitation counselors themselves are veterans or have close ties to the veteran community, including directly working with folks to find work and navigate the return to civilian life. Julianne Hansen is the founder and CEO of Team Hansen Education and Empowerment, and much of Julianne's work has been focused on finding ways to show the veteran community they are supported. As a CRC with a disability and spouse to a permanently disabled veteran, Julianne has a unique perspective on the support necessary to help this population thrive, and it begins with meeting each person where they are. Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Julianne. And I want to start with you, where we start with all of our guests, which is kind of how did you become a certified rehabilitation counselor? Can you tell me a little bit about your journey and kind of when you learned about this profession?

Julianne Hansen: 1:22

Thank you for having me, Taylor. I know it's really important for all of us as CRCs to kind of meet ourselves as individuals but as professionals so that we know where our resources are in each other. My original introduction to the field, believe it or not, was back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, uh, I was homeless for six months. And one of my counselors voluntold me in the program that I was in that I would sign up for Vogue Rehab. And I laughed and I said, I don't need Voke Rehab. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't need it. Uh great decision. I was still very young. And so um when I did finally get introduced to it, um, I worked with uh the California State Department of Voke Rehab. Um and at first I was like, okay, I kind of get it, but I'm still not really clicking. Um and then about nine months or so later, my vocal rehab counselor was reassigned. And I I was devastated. Now, mind you, five minutes ago I didn't know what Voke Rehab was. But apparently in that nine months, I was heavily invested. The blessing was that my vocal rehab counselor that was assigned at that point and I worked together across the span of almost 20 years. Um, every time I reached the goal and I was about to become employed, I mean like mid-interview for jobs level of about to become employed, I would be hit with you know an episode of MS. I would land in my wheelchair for a year and a half with no voice and no swallow and a questionable ability to walk. And so every time there was, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna hit this goal, there's gonna be employment, there'd be something else to kind of sidetrack it. And after a while, it was okay, I have to make a decision because clearly I have enough disability in different ways that I could just sit back and go, you know what, the world's a horrible place. I'm not doing this anymore. I every time I do it, I fail, forget it, I'm not gonna do it. But something in me was like, you know, that's not you. You need to stop it, you'll figure it out. And I realized that the acronym for hope is Hold on Pain Ends. And that my book, Rehab Counselor, and the counselors I was working with, occupational therapy, physical therapy, everybody, we're all hope dealers. And we every day we come to work, we are offering some glimmer of something better. And I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to be a hope dealer, and so that's part of what put me on the path to become a CRC.

Taylor Bauer: 4:01

I feel like um that that hope element, or even just that um empowerment and advocate role that that CRCs play, and we know other professions as well, can be so vital because you're right, depending on how many, you know, no path is linear. Um, and you're, you know, there's there are gonna be, as you mentioned, chapters of your life where you're feeling like you're taking maybe more steps backwards than forwards. And that can be a really hard thing to deal with uh mentally, physically, emotionally, everything. And um, one of the things we hear a lot from clients who work with CRCs, beyond just the actual, you know, rehabilitation counseling skills, is it meant the world to them to have someone in their corner who was like, you know, this is a this is a marathon, not a sprint. There are going to be periods that are harder than others, but we are going to stay goal-oriented, right? And I think hope is part of that, right? The goal of of any sort of professional or personal aspiration for somebody is to is to hope that you're going to get to that place you want to get to. And and and now you're doing that work um and impacting so many. You are the founder and CEO of Team Hansen Education and Empowerment LLC. Um, can you tell me a little bit about your business and kind of what drove you to start it, as well as some of the programs and workshops that you offer?

Julianne Hansen: 5:18

So, Team Hansen, um, we put a stop to it for a minute. We are reframing as we've relocated across the country to get better VA healthcare for my husband. So at the moment, Team Hansen Education and Empowerment, uh, we have we're developing further for an online audience what I call the We've Got Your Six program. And it's six elements of don't hate the play, hate the game. Understand if you are accommodating at school or trying to get through a VA claim, there's a process and it's not personal, it's business. It feels personal. Oh, trust me. I'm sure. And it will feel even more personal before it's done. But that level of self-care baseline of healthcare education. You know, if you ask an elderly veteran, well, do you have high blood pressure? Well, yeah, I have high blood pressure. But the PACT Act says hypertension. Well, if they're not calling it hypertension, their automatic answer is no, I don't have hypertension. Okay. Do you have a heart problem? Well, yes. Do you have ischemic heart disease? No. Okay. What kind of heart problem do you have? The way they understand it, they're almost like automatically talking themselves out of it because, well, that's not for me. So that's what we love to do, including students with disabilities, including veterans and their families, is reframe the work. Reframe the work, the what I call worksheets because they're not just technical forms. We're not filling it out for you. We are educating you on past a certain era of service. Your VA number is your social security number. You know, little things like that. The Vietnam era veteran is not just were you boots on the ground in Vietnam? We don't want stolen valor, but we want some respect for having served where we were when we were there. A lot of our younger kids, our younger uh veterans right now don't recognize, don't process. If they serve post-2001 to present, this and their boots were on the ground outside of the US, they serve in a war zone.

Taylor Bauer: 7:22

Right.

Julianne Hansen: 7:23

So when the box asks, have you served in a war zone? Well, no. Why? Because nothing blew up in front of you. And so we talk about that. And we talk about the moral injury. We talk about coming home to adjustment disorder and not having any concept of social construct outside of the base. Not that we don't know how to handle ourselves, of course we do. But little things like on time is late, well, you better know it. But a lot of people who have never served in the military, 20, 30 minutes is nothing. We work on making it less of a personal affront and more of an empowered presence. You know, we don't have to fight it every inch of the way.

Taylor Bauer: 8:12

Yeah, and that that's so important. I think the intricacy of all of these systems, which can be life-changing for folks to access all of the benefits that they've earned through service, can be so overwhelming. And I think having a a CRC or an organization like yours kind of there to say, like, like you said, we've got your sets, you know, these are complex systems that we are not only going to, you know, work with you on navigating, but I like what you said about self-empowerment and not filling out forms on behalf of someone. So they're not gaining insight into why certain things are organized the way they are. And even if, you know, even after they understand it, if they're like, still doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Like you said, it's, it's, it's, it's, don't hate the player, hate the game. This is how it's set up right now. So how do you navigate it in the way that's going to work for you? And um, that doesn't mean that there still aren't hurdles, but the more you understand where those hurdles are and how to give the answers that they're looking for, that's just a lot to take in. And I think it's so vital that CRCs work with veterans because this is all so, to me, as someone who hasn't even gone through it, so overwhelming to hear about. I can't even imagine if now it's like my benefits are on the line, right? And if I don't understand how to follow the necessary steps, I might not get access to those things that I'm that I've earned. And that that is an intimidating thing. And the funny thing about intimidation or feeling overwhelmed is we know sometimes it our instinct is to kind of be like, okay, never mind. I'm not gonna pursue this, I'm not gonna seek these out. It seems like too much. And they could greatly benefit from having access to these services. So it's so important that you know, you and other CRCs who work with the veteran uh community are there to walk them through this.

Julianne Hansen: 9:57

Part of it as well, and I absolutely I appreciate your concise explanation. Um, part of it is, for example, a mental health claim. If we say, Oh, well, I have PTS, well, depending on the examiner, uh, literally they said to my husband, Well, did you see anyone die in front of you? And he said, No. He said, then you don't have PTS. And that person denied their claim, denied his claim right off the bat. And I'm like, okay, um, that's my husband, first of all.

Taylor Bauer: 10:24

Right, right.

Julianne Hansen: 10:25

I'm living this. Uh but on the other side of that is instead of filing, I'm, you know, I'm requesting disability for PTS. If you use the words mental health all-inclusive, that interprets too, I don't really want to get into an argument about what to call it. I want someone to identify what's going on with this person and assist them, whether that's through paying them and giving them provisions and services or not. The suicide rate for veterans is way too high. And if we go out of our way to jack it up with stress even more, how is that serving the veterans? So that's why to me it's it's a personal goal to at least reduce that stress load. The first thing we do is we have them call up and submit an intent to file, which hands them one year, one year to figure out the rest of it. This isn't the longer you take, the the less money you're gonna get paid back. This isn't a parasitic company saying, I'll take 30% of your back pay for what? For 10 minutes of your work? How is that fair? So I would be able to educate and empower not just the veterans but their families.

Taylor Bauer: 11:37

Yeah, yeah. We know those like um support systems. Obviously, you're you're not always just working with an individual who's kind of an island, right? They have folks around them, hopefully. And and some folks don't, we know, but for a lot of folks, they might have friends or family who are going to be heavily involved in the journey of getting these benefits and what comes next for them. And I think involving all of them is so crucial. And one of the things that you note um uh with your business is that you like to help, and this is a quote, navigate red tape without losing themselves in the stress of it all. And I think that stress, like you've like you've you know aptly pointed out, can be so much of an additional experience that they're going through on top of whatever they're already experiencing, that unfortunately we know can be uh you know the catalyst for some sort of really scary thoughts and episodes. And it's really important for folks to be able to get these things without, I don't know, exacerbating ongoing conditions or experiences.

Julianne Hansen: 12:40

About that, but we are still paying off 60 years of veterans who are living the old VA. So my Vietnam era veterans who are still so and rightfully so angry, bitter, and hurt of the last 50 years of how they've been treated. Why would they trust after 50 years of not being able to? And so I have appreciated because it's not really anybody's fault in terms of people who are in charge of the forums. Right? I mean, we're all trying to do our best by our veterans, of course we are.

Taylor Bauer: 13:16

Sure.

Julianne Hansen: 13:17

But it's that that high stress, those high stakes, you're in that constant pain, whether it's emotional or physical, and no one does well. So we need those rabid dog advocates on our side in terms of family and friends. And you know, that was actually a nickname an ER doctor gave me when I went in demanding answers about my husband. He said, Who's the rabbit dog advocate? And I was like, That would be me.

Taylor Bauer: 13:38

Well, there you go. Add it to your uh list of credentials at the end of your name on your email signature, right?

Julianne Hansen: 13:45

I am most proud of my honorary Marine status. I did, I did take it.

Taylor Bauer: 13:48

I love that.

Julianne Hansen: 13:49

I love that one.

Taylor Bauer: 13:50

Yeah. Knowing the way to navigate these systems for benefits and things like that is why we, you know, at CRCC think that every veteran should have access to work with a certified rehabilitation counselor, um, because navigating these systems and having that knowledge to guide clients through benefits and programs is so vital. Um, we know some of that hurt that happens with veterans is if they have an experience where they work with someone who maybe isn't as helpful as they need them to be. And ideally, you know, you want to put veterans or anybody who is receiving these sorts of services with the best possible professional who can help them, which, you know, is a certified rehabilitation counselor. So what sort of difference do you feel like your training as a CRC makes in not only just working with veterans in general, but in kind of getting to be that prime example of like, these are the services you've deserved all along. And I'm I'm here to work with you uh and meet you where you're at.

Julianne Hansen: 14:46

I think part of what helped me was that my professional ethics and my personal ethics are so in alignment. I was raised on Michael Landon. I tell people that all the time. And for the youngest who may not know, Little House on the Prairie, Bonanza, all those kind of, you know, do the right thing. So I was raised on that. But part of that comes with just being able to be present with the person, right? I was one of the only people for quite a while that would assist with military sexual trauma claims. And people assume they're all just women. Well, no, because the bulk of the military is just men. Um so to be one to establish rapport and be trustworthy and be approachable as CRC, we're we're trained on all of these things. We are trained in our oars, we are trained in you know our our communications style, um, all of it. I work best with detoxing parolee homeless marines. Who knew? Part of it is, and they've told me this, I didn't know this before. Um, I'm not scary, I'm approachable, and I'm real with them. Veterans, and especially parole uh detoxing parole marines can smell BS a mile away. And if you come in acting like you know, they will shut you down on principle. I mean, I have no idea what the experience that you've had as someone who's been inside. So let's sit down and share what we know. It's similar to CRC. A lot of us have walked different paths, a lot of us have disabilities or family members with disabilities, right? So we've seen things that other people have no concept of. We just think everybody's family is like that. No, everybody's family is not like that. Same idea with the people who have been in any kind of institution or in service. You know, you have to gain the trust and the respect, and it will be returned. And I think that that as CRC, we know that. And we appreciate that. And we bring it and then we hand it right back to them.

Taylor Bauer: 16:50

Yeah, it's it's part of providing ethical service. And, you know, as as we know, that code of professional ethics for CRCs is one of the things we hear uh certificates point to most often as what are they value about their credential. And it's not only the training that gets them into a position to pass an exam that says I can provide ethical services to this, uh, to this population, but it's really like you said, it's a mindset and an embodiment of I am going to do the right thing by this client. And that means meeting them where they are, not pushing um judgments or um inappropriate assumptions about somebody before you even get a chance to sit down and find out who they are. It's it's also, you know, knowing that you might not know where your client has been before you're coming, you know, you're crossing paths, but it's about knowing that you have the skills to get them to where they need to be in terms of, you know, goal setting and achieving those goals. And it does not begin with walking in and telling them, I have all the answers, I know everything about you, let's get started. You know, there's a difference between being an expert and um assuming your knowledge is going to be, you know, just all that the person needs to trust you. And I think that trust building and that counseling part of a CRC's training really comes to shine there. And then as they're navigating things like disability, that that disability training and education comes in. And it's a perfect blending of of skills and and and knowledge and all of these different things that that folks need, that I think we just need to see more CRCs working with with veterans, with people with disabilities in general, because it's such a a unique blend that no other profession offers.

Julianne Hansen: 18:31

And and that while while you're saying that, it I flashed on the memory of how my business came to be. The day that I no longer worked as a veteran service officer, I went to the local coffee house near um near the base. So really, there's only eight, six thousand total people in the county, and more than half of them are on base. You go into the coffee house, of course you're gonna run into your clients, right? And uh I sat down and one of my clients said, you know, Miss Juliana, why are you here? And I said, Oh, you know, why aren't you at work? I said, no longer working there. And he said, Well, why? And I said, Well, I'm expected to defend your rights, but not my own. And as a person with disability, filing for you know, an appropriate desk was apparently too much to ask. And so we talked a lot about how I needed to give my veterans what they deserve in a positive light, and I wasn't uh um afforded the opportunity to do so. He looks at me, he slams his hand on the desk and he's all right, or on the table, he's all right, this is what we're gonna do. And he turned into, you know, and I'm like, um, and he's and he started mapping it out. We're gonna do an online business, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And he mapped it all out, and I'm still sitting there in shock. And he I looked at him, I go, Why are you doing this? Why are you helping right now? And he said, You don't remember the first time we met. And I said, No. And he said, I came in, I was devastated. You gave me a roll of toilet paper instead of Kleenex, you handed me a bottle of water, I told you my story, and you slammed your hand on the desk and you said, All right, this is what we're gonna do. Okay, and he goes, and we did it, and it worked. He goes, and I'm telling you, if we do this, it's gonna work. But isn't that nice that my legacy to him, he was able to flip in a way that made sense for both of us. We're not becoming anybody other than who we are, not you know, in that moment, this wasn't about crossing any kind of weird boundary, we're sitting in a coffee house talking about how not to cry ourselves to death. But it was more about be approachable from both angles. You know, be real with your clients. If you don't know, don't tell them you know, don't act like you know, and they'll hopefully do the same for you. But when when you talk to people and you meet them where they are, it doesn't matter who it is. Doesn't matter, I mean, yeah, like I said earlier, I've been homeless, uh, I've been a lot of things. But that personal context of I don't have to be you to know you, but don't come in knowing like I know what we're gonna do. One of the toughest questions for people on the CRC is about um a client needs a piece of adaptive equipment, I forget how it goes. Uh, who do you ask first? Your supervisor, the equipment provider, or your client? And more of my classmates got that wrong. Will that client even use it? Do they even want it? Do they need it? It's all just be present with the person.

Taylor Bauer: 21:51

And I do think one of the things that particularly people who maybe don't have um education or training to work with people with disabilities, um, they they run into this kind of unforced error of wanting to do things on behalf of an individual to assist them. And part of that is that like adaptive equipment or thinking, oh, I see this person's in a wheelchair. You know what they could use or you know what they could need? I saw this, you know, piece of equipment that could be huge for them. And they won't even necessarily ask, like, oh, is there anything with being in a wheelchair that you're experiencing difficulty with or things like you want to immediately almost offer a solution before you even know what sort of problems they might be experiencing.

Julianne Hansen: 22:32

It sounds out of like a like a discomfort, an awkward nervousness. Where does that come from?

Taylor Bauer: 22:37

I I think genuinely it's, and this is something we've talked a little bit about with other podcast guests. I think most people who don't have a firsthand experience of uh being disabled themselves or being around disability have a very uh finite understanding of what disability even is, right? Um they might I even the example I used, right, of someone in a wheelchair, that points to a kind of a preconceived notion that a disability has to be visible. So I'm like that, you know, checking myself right now and saying there are a lot of things that we just kind of fill in the blanks about disability if we don't have a ton of hands-on experience being around people who are disabled. And I think when people don't understand things, they get uncomfortable because they're a little concerned maybe I don't know the right thing to say or the right thing to do. And they lose this kind of basic truth that like disabled people are people. You can talk to them like a person, you know? And I think it just it freezes people up when they don't understand something.

Julianne Hansen: 23:33

And I think that have to speak to us loudly and over-enunciat-oh, yeah, no.

Taylor Bauer: 23:38

Yeah, you've mentioned on this episode you're married to a permanently disabled veteran. There's a very unique perspective you have as someone with a disability who's also married to someone with a disability on top of your training as a CRC. And I think those lived experiences are so unique and provide you with a perspective where you've probably run into things that other CRCs have not, based on, you know, your personal life and your experience. And then there's also, you know, your training and your education that equip you with that knowledge that folks who study other professions don't have. So, what sort of perspective does all of this blend to provide you in terms of just disability in general or um the ways in which people receive services?

Julianne Hansen: 24:20

Two two things come up for me. And one's kind of funny, and the other one's just kind of sad. When um when I get frustrated, um the MS processing and the TBI processing and all kinds of other joint forces, never mind the paramenopause, joining forces, which yes, paramenopause is a temporary disability. If I can't figure something out that should be easy, I hear myself shout, I have a degree, damn it. And then I have to laugh. I have to make myself laugh because it's really not that serious. But part of it also, I was in like an isolation, like a step down from ICU uh just over a year and a half ago. And they came in, they were all very serious. And they said, We're very sorry. Uh, there's evidence of TBI and it's causing and it started listing like all these problems. Well, what they didn't know about me is one of my specialties was cognitive disabilities. Another one of my specialties was was psychiatric disabilities. Um so with the cognitive disability, he's being very serious trying to explain this. And I just started rattling off like you know, technical terms and you know, and then I kind of laughed and he said, Well, have you had a traumatic brain injury before? And I said, I've had a list of them. I said, in fact, you know, playing sports in the 80s. I mean, come on growing up with without any protective gear, uh riding bicycles and doing all that. But then just as you know, an adult with neurosurgeries and things like that, yeah, that's that's traumatic brain injury if you're not careful. But it wasn't about I'm upset and you're gonna have to educate me. In fact, it gave the specialist such a run for his money. I felt a little bit bad for him because he looked like a little bit thrown when I would ask him questions. And finally I paused and I said, Well, what's what's what's what's the eyebrow? What's going on? And he goes, These are not questions I've ever heard from a patient before. And part of that to answer your question is in a way, the education does serve us because instead of sitting there and having a pity party for myself, I sat and I realized, okay, I already know where my resources are. I'm surrounded by people who are now family who already know how to handle this. It's just another speed bump. Um, my mentor, one of my mentors, uh Dr. Charles Dejenau, who's one of the one of the bigger researchers on in some of the sports injury type TBI, a lot of cognitive disability research. To make myself laugh, I'll go, okay, where's Chuck? You know, where's where's the person who's gonna talk me down? Because this is gonna stop me. And that helps because when I sit with other even the the young uh interns or somebody that'll come in and ask a question about, well, how does this work if my client is duly diagnosed? I don't understand dual diagnosis, I don't understand TBI. As a person on both sides of the desk, it makes it easier to um approach that answer gently for both of both the provider and the consumer. But it makes it a little harder once in a while because as a provider and a consumer, well, how come I'm not doing this? How come it because I'm tired. I'm tired, boss. Right, you know, and that has been the nice part about creating a small business that you know we're shifting to online so that way it can accommodate everyone's disability when it needs to, without losing the quality of care on either end.

Taylor Bauer: 27:57

Right. Yeah, I think one of the things that I've enjoyed learning uh just about the disability space in general from CRCs um is this idea that, like, you know, experiencing and living with a disability gives you a perspective that doesn't always include that, okay, here's what we're gonna do to start navigating this. Depending on, you know, the resources that they've had access to or the support system they have, there might be um opportunities out there for them to access services that they don't even know exist. And I think that's the thing, being on the marketing side of CRCC, that uh I'm constantly kind of driven to figure out new solutions for. We know that there are people with disabilities in the United States who do not know rehabilitation counseling is there for them. They they don't know that Vogue rehab is a thing. They don't know that there's an entire profession of folks who study counseling and disability and how those intersect. And that's the part that um that I wouldn't say keeps me up at night, right? But like in a way, it kind of does, where I'm like, there are people who could benefit from these services, even CRCs I've talked to, who didn't have access to services as an individual with a disability until much later in their life when they're maybe discovering that this is even a profession they could pursue, and they've gone through entire decades of their life without services or resources or things that could have benefited them. And that that to me is um a perfect example of why we need to continue to find ways to get awareness of this profession out there to as many folks as possible.

Julianne Hansen: 29:24

That and the the profession and also the availability of services. So um, master's program for Vogue Rehab, there was a cohort of 20 that year. More than five of them have major disabilities of some kind, qualified, and had no idea about Vogue Rehab, and they planned on paying for that degree all by themselves. So I was like, oh no, honey, that's not how we do this. Look forward to paying it forward later on down the road, but we're gonna get you help. Being a resource would have happened anyway, whether I was a CRC or not. And it was happening. Um, my friends just came. Me goo short for Google because if I didn't know it, I looked it up and I found out and we made it work. So I am goo. But it's so I mean, especially for the people that are, oh, what do I want to do? What do I want to do? What fires you up? What gets you out of bed? Because when it is cold and you don't feel well, um the animals still need to eat and you need to still pay rent or mortgage, the light bill. We gotta do something that makes us connect with who we are on every level. And for me, that's what this field does, because it really does allow me to be present with people who are awesome in their own battles. I've yet to meet a quitter. I have yet to meet a quitter. I've seen people that are tired and burned out, I've seen people that get overwhelmed and make poor decisions. They didn't quit, they just ran out of resources. They chose the wrong resource at the end.

Taylor Bauer: 30:55

I think that I think that's a really impactful thing to kind of sit with to know that for a lot of the folks that you work with, particularly with a lot of your clients being veterans, there's kind of a failure is not an option, a mentality sometimes. And there are going to be days, obviously, where you have more of that fight in you than others. Like you said, being tired is a very natural thing while you're navigating disability or just being alive in general, right? Um and so I would imagine with with the work you do and being someone who naturally gravitated towards helping others, that there's a lot of um fulfillment with specifically working with that veteran community. Are there aspects or or um takeaways from working with veterans that you've felt most fulfilled by or that have kind of impacted your outlook on this type of work?

Julianne Hansen: 31:42

Um, two things that that come to mind with that. Getting people to connect with the idea that you were in perfect health when you entered the service or they would not have accepted you. There is a small book on ways to screen you out. And to have left the service and have a list of things wrong with you doesn't fly well with me. But what really it's my Vietnam era veterans that really have have my heart because I mean, uh it's random. Um, when I was very small, there was a TV show called Barney Miller, and an actor, Max Gale, played Wojo Hoets, and Wojo was a Vietnam uh Marine, uh had just come home because you figure the show was set started in 73, right? So if you figure they're filming it from 73 to 81, he had just come home. Um and he was um he was a peaceful protester as an actor, he still is, but the character was always very hyper aware of chemical exposure, environmental poison, you know, veterans' rights. And I'm this teeny kid watching MASH being all about MASH and being all about Woe Jehoas and feeling so passionate, you know, six years old, five years old, however you, you know, ten years old, depending. I raise my hand when I'm 11 and what do you want to write your report about? The effects of Asian Orange on the Vietnam War. Well, I got sent to the principal's office because he thought I was being facetious. And I'm crying because why are you here? I don't know. I want to write a report on the effects of Asian Orange in the Vietnam War. Um, so here we are over what, 40 years later? 30 something? 40 years later. I'm very bad at math. We talked about that. Um and I'm still doing it because it does matter. I currently have an autographed picture of Max Gail on my desk that my husband left her the other day. It's because it has been that lifelong thing. No, there's no guarantee of anything. I can get hit by a Guinness truck as soon as I walk out the front door. Wouldn't that be unfortunate? And why would a Guinness truck be in Kentucky? But anyway. But no one knows what's gonna happen. I don't know if I'm gonna wake up tomorrow. God forbid I wake up and my husband's not waking up next to me. Does the time that we've had make a difference in whatever condition we're in? I'm cracking jokes in ICU and getting in trouble for it because apparently I coded. And the nurse the last thing I clearly remember as I'm fading was she's screaming, we were just laughing. And they physically removed her because she was too upset to be there. You have to laugh. You have to make it at least a little less extreme than it feels to be able to stay centered. If the CRCs of the world end up melting down and not taking care of themselves, and the people with disabilities end up melting down and not taking care of themselves, and our veterans come home so turned around that they end up using drugs and end up being in prison and end up being homeless just for the fact that they served and they ended up with enough stuff wrong with them that they ended up on the wrong path. If we all keep going down these really weird paths and none of us hold, we're not holding out, you know, we're not giving a handout, we're giving a hand up. We have to hold up and hold out hope and be the hope dealers.

Taylor Bauer: 35:25

And and we need more hope dealers, right? We know, you know, over a quarter of the American population is lives with a disability. We know that there are people who, even if they don't understand rehabilitation counseling exists as an option. I can't tell you how many of these episodes begin with people being like, well, someone just randomly mentioned rehab counseling as a as a graduate program to me. And I said, Oh, that makes sense. We know people like yourself gravitate toward professions where they can make a difference, and like you said, use use their time to impact others. For folks who are listening to this podcast who might be kind of considering what they might be doing, whether it's their first career, second career, third, fourth, fifth, um, and they're curious about making a difference and they're maybe hearing about rehabilitation counseling for the first time. What is it about this work that you think is worth pursuing on a personal level, on a professional level? And uh I guess what would you say to folks uh knowing full well we need more CRCs out there?

Julianne Hansen: 36:26

When people ask me how how exactly did I get involved, I kind of got involved based on a dare because, like I said, about that uh CRC that I worked with for so long, I had lost my ability to walk, talk, and swallow. I had done all kinds of other stuff. I was sitting in his office one day because I had finished my uh my bachelor's degree and he leans back in his desk and he kind of puts his feet up on the corner of his desk. He goes, So what do you want to do? What do you want to be? And I looked at him and I kind of leaned back and I said, I want your desk when you retire. He's like, What? And I said, I want your job. I mean, clearly I know how to do your job because we just spent 20 years together. I think I figured out what that looks like from both sides. And I was kidding. Um he says, You want to go to grad school? And I said, Do I have to? Yeah. And I said, I don't know that I can afford that. He goes, that wasn't the question. Do you want to go to grad school? Because you're gonna need your CRC. And the fact that I could write well was what kind of clenched the getting permission thing from the powers that be. And I made sure that I graduated at the top of my class as a student of the year for the graduate year because it made a difference to other people. Um little kids, veterans. It's it's an awesome field. I enjoy it because you're not trapped in a cubicle unless you choose to be. Uh, you are making a difference, even if you do have cubicle walls, you're still making a difference in someone's life. You're not a faceless person or a nameless person whose work doesn't matter in the end of the day. I've had parents come to me weeping and thanking me. And all I did was my job as a state representative for Volk Rehab. Um, they had no idea the Volk Rehab was a thing. And when their child was born, the doctor had said they're never gonna get to go to college, they're never gonna have a real job, and now they're going to college and they're having real jobs. That has nothing to do with me. I'm just the person that said this way, you know. But we are the people. We have to be the ones to put that on blast.

Taylor Bauer: 38:42

It it's it it's also probably, you know, a a a fact that if you're gonna go into this field, you are going to have to advocate for people who either don't think they need advocacy or don't think they potentially deserve it, or that they have a a right to seek out these services or something like that. Like they uh that's that's spot on.

Julianne Hansen: 39:02

It's an even split sometimes between I don't need you, I don't want you, and how dare you say I have a disability, or I'm not worthy of spending the money on, or but the the heartbreaking ones are the ones that just don't know yet that they can. And that's my job to convince them not only can they, but they they will if they just do the little baby steps. It doesn't have to be all at once. I certainly will be the last one to tell you to graduate on time, it's just not gonna happen. The the timelines are not realistic. It takes what it takes.

Taylor Bauer: 39:32

100%. Yeah. And there's uh I think this is true of anybody, whether they have a disability or not. Um, there's so much harm that can be inflicted on oneself if they say, okay, I have to follow this specific path beat for beat. And if I don't, I'm somehow behind or failing. Oh, I'm a failure.

Julianne Hansen: 39:50

Oh yeah. I have to be with disponibility that I want to be. I mean, it's not about being a nonconformist, it's being true to you.

Taylor Bauer: 39:57

And that's why I think it's, you know, there are professions out there that do uh job placement, vocational work that don't have this understanding of disability and counseling. And I think having an approach of, okay, I can see that you have this skill or that skill, here's what you should go do, here's what you'd be good at, is so much less effective than what CRCs do by showing up and say, where do you want to be? What do you want to do? And then having the ability and the knowledge, like you said, to actually get them there and point them in that direction. That's not something, and you know, all of these professions are important. I'm not trying to demean anybody, but that's that missing link of why CRCs specifically need to be the ones who are working with these folks who, to your point, might have no vision for what could be coming in the future because they're just they're they're seemingly to themselves, they're out of options. They're like, I don't know what I could do. I don't think I can work, I don't think I could be at a job where I'm happy you're fulfilled. And CRCs go, okay, well, here's here's here's the condition you're experiencing and what we know about it. What do you want to do? Don't tell me what you can't do, tell me what you would like to do.

Julianne Hansen: 41:04

For my we've got your six program, part of my tagline is it's for the wars fought at home in the battles we tell no one about, right? So for for your to go back to what you just said, it's really by the numbers, right? I should be able to do this, this, this, this, and this. Oh, I should be a doctor, I should be, you know, blah, blah, blah. But acquired disability was never considered. My interests were never considered. So to be pigeonholed into, well, it says on that on that screening, you're interested in this, and you never ask me. You know, in in high school, I was in ROTC until I was diagnosed with MS, and then my recruiter fell off the planet because, of course, they don't want you. But now I get it. So instead of working as a Marine, I work for the Marine Corps indirectly for that entire time. And that's fine because that redirects us. None of us are gonna have, like you said, that linear like what are we gonna do to accommodate our own wishes and our own wants and represent. And I think as a field, we do a really good job being not only the cheerleaders but the boots on the ground who make sure that people are fully aware of their capabilities, their capacities, and their potential. And for as much as I hate the word potential, it is it's that drive and that tenacity. That is the one thing with my people, my my clients with disabilities and my veterans that tenacity. We do not quit.

Taylor Bauer: 42:32

Right. There are a lot of folks who want to do um this impactful, important work. And one of the areas that I know you're interested in professionally is this kind of concept of leadership and and workplace toxicity. And I'm also very interested in how, you know, the environments in which we're in can negatively impact us to the point where some of that potential that you just mentioned uh can feel like it fizzles out because you're not in that environment. And, you know, CRCs are asked to handle a lot in the work that they do, and that stress and that workload and all that comes with this important work uh can be exacerbated by leaders or peers who are not supporting them, are not uplifting them, and not being that helpful, you know, neighbor or friend or coworker that they deserve. Um, for leadership in particular, what are some of the things that should be the primary focus for anyone in this kind of rehabilitation counseling disability space uh when it comes to maintaining self-care and then also looking out for yourself so you don't lose that passion and you stop and you don't um start to see yourself like lose that spark that you feel for the work you do?

Julianne Hansen: 43:48

Art is it's a team effort. Um if if we have, you know, my my team when I was with uh California State, I had a coordinator, I had somebody at the front desk, I had more than just me. And it was my responsibility as the lead for that subsection to be aware of everyone's, you know, current status, not just on the job, but personally and you know, emotionally, all of that, right? Are we getting burnout? Are we getting sick from working too much? And it's COVID era, which made it even harder because you're supposed to track that from wherever you are. Watching the feedback from above and how it affects my team, right? Being aware of each other. I have a colleague that we would go on walks. We would just take 10 minutes and physically leave the building and go walk to the, you know, a good quarter mile each way, a good half mile, just go. And that was enough just to go out and not just mentally vomit. We would just sometimes not talk about anything, talk about whatever we watched on TV. But it was enough to just remember who you are. Don't forget that the forms are not the be-all and end all. The deadlines are not the be-all and end-all. And it's up to us to look out for each other, because some management teams will just step right over your corpse and go hire someone else. If you're not in at least somewhat of a positive environment that supports your own self-care, your own ADA rights. Um, you know, if you're not getting the accommodations, if you are not being paid what you're worth, in that you are a bilingual counselor and you're not being paid bilingual pay, have that discussion. If they're not willing to lift you up as the prize that you are, get to walking. Because that's a valuable asset that prints. And I see too many people go, oh, but I have a job. Yeah, okay. Talk louder until you get the respect. And really, it's the same thing with advocating for our rights as people with disabilities. If you are a bilingual employee and you're not getting bilingual pay, talk louder.

Taylor Bauer: 45:52

Yeah, speaking, speaking to your own value seems sometimes to be harder than speaking for someone else's value, right? Because we know every day. Yeah, right. And I would imagine as uh as uh certified rehabilitation counselors, it might come more naturally to advocate for your clients than it would for yourself, just because you're always thinking, what can I do to support the clients I'm working with and the people who need my services? And um, self-care isn't just like you said, it it's taking those walks, it's taking those braids, it's giving yourself that humanity and that space to breathe that you need, but it's also self-care to say I have a skill set and a knowledge that is worth what it's worth. And if people aren't seeing that worth, then you have to show them that worth, right?

Julianne Hansen: 46:39

Um they were hiring people from the post office, not to dismiss the people from the post office.

unknown: 46:45

Sure.

Julianne Hansen: 46:45

I love my postal workers. They're they're the elves, they truly are. Without them, there are no holidays. But I have my CRC, I have a master's degree, I have background in what we're doing. The person next to me is actually getting paid more than I am because they've been there six months longer than I have, and they worked with the post office before graduating or after graduating high school. That's the big background. So is it my fault for not stepping up and saying, hey, um, thought the requirement was, or do I just look for someone where there's or somewhere where there's more value? Pay attention to really what's going on because who's pulling that weight in that end would be I'm the one they're coming to to get the real feedback of what they're supposed to do in that situation. Just pay attention to your own health and your own well-being, but also surround yourself with close enough friends that will call you on your BS when you're not doing that.

Taylor Bauer: 47:41

Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's impossible to be perfect all the time, right? And I think it's good to have people around you who are.

Julianne Hansen: 47:48

We're just totally oblivious to it. Um, I have friends from my graduate cohort that we all feed off of each other in that we will call each other and check in and then just be like, hey, what about this opportunity for you? Or what about this accommodation for you? Would that help? Because we're not seeing it for ourselves. That and in the last 10 years, the accommodations are automatic now on our cell phones. It used to be a thing that you needed approval for to do speech to text and to do you know any of that. And now it's just everywhere. The school's providing it for everyone.

unknown: 48:25

Okay.

Julianne Hansen: 48:26

Yeah, all the dinosaurs that have been around since be before the ADA passed, um, it's a big deal. It's pretty cool.

Taylor Bauer: 48:34

Yeah. Yeah. Like what like we touched on earlier, it's not always gonna be every step you take, isn't always gonna be forward. And we know that there's so much more advocacy that needs to happen for people with disabilities. But see seeing that kind of change and just how some certain assistive technologies and things like that are more integrated into everyday life and the technology we use, those are those signs where it's like, okay, we're we're we're moving forward, even if it's not every single step, right? Um, and then, you know, motivation to keep pushing for those things to become even more and more commonplace for people.

Julianne Hansen: 49:06

And to just be aware of opportunities. If you don't know, just chat GPT or just ask somebody or just be willing to be open. That's part of what the We've Got Your Six program talks about as well is you know, buddy up with someone, tag team, because my interest in your issues may be a lot deeper than my interest in my own sometime. I know I'll fight a bear for you, but if the bear comes after me, I'll be like, I yeah.

Taylor Bauer: 49:36

Yeah, I I I give way better advice to others than I take for myself. So, um, and I think that's most of us, right? We've touched on so many different things, you know, the the positive aspects of this work and you know, the uh the impact, but also some of the um more serious things that need focus too, because we know that stress and anxiety and everything that's related to work does occur, and you know, mitigating those things is so important. Uh, we like to always end these podcast episodes on a similar note, um, talking about, you know, the way that this work is very much a calling for people. And I'm curious what brings you joy in the work that you do as a CRC?

Julianne Hansen: 50:15

The aha moment. The aha moment of whether it's a family member, whether it's a kid that believes the bullies until we sit down. Um, if if it takes me risking telling my story and really getting into the weeds of it to let somebody see that success can happen, that that we grow up, that we become empowered, that dreams come true, the aha moment makes it all worthwhile. You know, and that's been the greatest blessing. It doesn't matter if it's a veteran or a widow or a little kid. Um you know, when I tell people that Darth Vader, James Earl Jones, stuttered until the day he died, a severe stutter. And the reason he enunciated, and I explained that whole story behind that. And then I tell them that oh, you're too young for this reference, I'll have to find new ones. But you know, the Fonz is dyslexic. You know, all these people, and you start talking about the people in recovery and the people see now this generation has is it's less shameful to talk about any of it. But back in the day, it was it was it was newsworthy if anybody had anything wrong with them that they admitted to. So I I look at that and I go, okay, what does it? It's the aha moment that by the time you get to B50, you're gonna know exactly who you are, and you're gonna either be just fine with it, and it's much more fun to be just fine with it. I don't I don't even to me, it doesn't matter as MS and TBI and all this stuff is all gonna be progressive. Um, where you are is where you are sometimes. Make it fun. So it doesn't all have to be you know doom and gloom. It's uh we it's definitely the aha moments.

Taylor Bauer: 52:09

A huge thank you to Julianne for an excellent conversation on this episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. If you have any comments or insights to share about today's topic, you can email us at contact us at crccertification.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching CRC Cert. Like, subscribe, and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to us today. If you have an idea for a future episode of the show, or you want to come on and tell us about the work you do as a certified rehabilitation counselor, we'd love for you to get in touch. Thanks for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing, Taylor Bauer. Take care.